Boards›Gameplay

Hook supports need nerfs

koshkyra·7/25/2019, 9:09:08 PM·23 votes·10,159 views

Pyke 17% pickrate 51% winrate 29% banrate https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/pyke Nautilus 11% pickrate 51% winrate 18% banrate https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/nautilus Blitzcrank 8% pickrate 51% winrate 9% banrate https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/blitzcrank Thresh 23% pickrate 51% winrate 12% banrate https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/thresh

All stats are plat+ and yes i rounded them up or down slightly.

There is a hook support picked in 59% of games and there is a hook support banned in 68% of games, not to mention all hook supports have positive winrates for “high-skill champions” besides nautilus (who, surprisingly, has the lowest winrate). This is a problem.

Blitzcrank and pyke can be fixed by reverting the buffs that you gave them for no reason, thresh can be fixed by stopping the favoritism (hes needed nerfs for a while now) and nautilus is just good because of the damage meta imo and if we ever get out of it he’ll be fine.

53 Comments

NY647/25/2019, 9:28:03 PM21 votes

It's mostly because the damage is so high that peel supports can't peel so you might as well pick high cc supports that help make it easier for your allies to do their damage.

Jimmy Rustles7/25/2019, 9:27:33 PM17 votes

Well, its either damage supports, hook supports, or enchanters

All of them are currently seeing success, especially when it leads more towards higher damage champs

So uh, don't know what you expect to happen

boricCentaur17/25/2019, 10:23:57 PM11 votes

Just fix the fucking hitboxes OF ALL OF THEM! Then problem solved.

Baby Ghoul7/26/2019, 12:47:08 AM10 votes

Pyke is just ridiculous at the moment, so I don't think they can ignore him for much longer. I bet he'll get some of the nerfs he deserves in a patch or two following his Project skin release.

I don't know if they'd ever touch their LS$ darling Thresh though.

[sg-lulu]

Supports are just making bot lane a pain right now though. Brand support's damage is still stupid and Yuumi isn't anymore fun or engaging to play against with her oppressive poke and safety.

You ban one of these guys and you get hit with the other. Something has to be done soon.

I'm glad you listed the pick rate and ban rate too. So many people on here only ever talk about win rates, but that tells us nothing without the proper context the other stats provide.

BLIGHTBRINGER7/25/2019, 9:51:41 PM8 votes

Tbh I prefer being playing against hook Supports, if they hit their hook it's my fault for not dodging it properly or if they hit their hook they should be rewarded for doing so as specially if they catch someone who is very mobile.

Mage Supports literally make you miserable and will make you unable to play (you will find yourself constantly having to go back), Enchanters are okay I think (except for Yuumi, i'm still not okay with almost undodgeable 40-80% Slows for 1.25 - 1.75 seconds that happens to be her main Poke tool every 10 or less seconds).

I also don't really enjoy playing against heavy cc bots (like Leona).

Meteora7077/25/2019, 11:26:46 PM6 votes

how bout the fact that the top 7 winrate supports are all enchanters?

MrFawknSunshine7/25/2019, 9:56:10 PM5 votes

the only support champ i ban is Yuumi

i can care less if naut, blitz, thresh or pyke is picked. there are champs that flat out negate them

Strawberrycocoa7/25/2019, 9:57:58 PM5 votes

I really only agree about nerfs regarding Pyke. Giving hook gameplay to a damage-oriented champ was never a good idea, but then they gave him high staying power and resistance to being shoved out of lane on top of it.

Pyke needs to lose the health regeneration entirely and have his misplays penalize him more than they currently do, and he'd be fine.

I memba balance 7/26/2019, 1:13:32 AM5 votes

yeah...you're stupid if you think Blitzcrank needs a nerf or revert.

JuiceBoxP7/26/2019, 9:11:30 AM4 votes

The problem is the hitboxes. Blitzcrank Thresh Have some idiotically stupid broken hitboxes. Hooks pass through minions, going next to you and grabbing you.

Tanerian7/26/2019, 7:28:37 AM4 votes

The problem is dmg. With hooks and hard CC you can dodge 19 out of 20 times but that one time you don't? RIP.

Didnt used to be this way. In hate it, but it's never going back.

Razelth7/26/2019, 2:48:39 AM3 votes

Janna 53% winrate 9% pickrate. Nami 52.57% winrate 12.7 pickrate.

huhndog7/26/2019, 1:11:43 PM3 votes

to be 100% honest with you. I just want pyke to be nerfed to the ground. I'd rather be pulled by a blitz into a bush of 5 than be in the same lane as pyke

FSRER7/26/2019, 5:43:59 AM2 votes

Pyke, needs his gold buff removed For Nautilus, the biggest nerf possible would be fixing his Q hitbox Blitzcrank needed a buff because, to be honest, at a all in, using your ult is the most important thing you should do when you hook someone so his ult passive is kinda useless. And Thresh, he needs more cooldown at Q That should fix them

Diävolo7/26/2019, 12:31:36 AM2 votes

Dude, these supports are the most useless supports. Because if they miss Q. They are afk. What needs nerfs is Brand/Zyra/Swain(support)/Lux/Veigar/Teemo...

DuskDaUmbreon7/26/2019, 1:14:23 AM2 votes

Naut and Blitz both have reasonable pickrates, all have a reasonable winrate. Thresh and Pyke are a bit high with their pickrates, sure, but a 51% winrate 12% pickrate isn't really worthy of nerfs.

14daysuspensionk7/26/2019, 2:03:05 AM2 votes

Out of all of them Pyke hs to be the most infuriating one.

General Esdeath 7/26/2019, 2:26:12 AM2 votes

Well yeah, whenever enchanter meta pops its ugly head up, hook supports come in to stop it. They're countered by the tank supports. And those tanks are countered by enchanters (unless it's a tank with good engage)

Janna > Braum > Blitzcrank > Janna

Skullgetti7/26/2019, 11:30:33 PM1 votes

They're the only useful supports next to extremely bursty midlaners like brand and vel'koz going bot right now. Kind of sad how supports like Braum are barely playable in lower elo's because of it

Zerefette7/26/2019, 1:58:20 AM1 votes

Wanna know why they are so good? Riot keeps copy pasting the orb mechanic at the end of old skillshots into every grab champ, at the end of Naut's grab forms a larger grab sphere that searchs for the closest thing to grab, that's why you see so many anchors reappering. This applies to all the other hooks and in other skillshots as well.

0cean Mann7/26/2019, 2:31:23 AM1 votes

Hook supports are champions who are just done with those ranged champions bullsh*t that Riot gave them hook abilities to say "look at me, I'm your in my zone now"and forces fights to happen to let the hook support T-pose over those annoying, kiting, below 2000 hp champions.

KlydeFrog7/26/2019, 2:50:09 AM1 votes

Yet naut is stronger then both lol. Pyke has a hook and a glorified shen dash . But naut q has a huge huge hitbox

Aletheiacracy7/26/2019, 5:47:15 AM1 votes

YOU'RE A HOOKER!

-Grandma's Boy reference

Rıots Bad Client7/26/2019, 6:27:07 AM1 votes

Hook supporters are normally the "Top Filled Tank" Players and dont feel comfortable playing anything risky. There isnt a Safe Support that you can take, So you take the second best option, which is simple hook playstyle.

Now, I dont think Hook Champs needs nerfs. There is noting wrong with them. They're just the most accessible and appealing of the supports. Specially when when your not a support main and dont feel the Impact that other supports might have nor know the strength of others. If you Nerf these champions, You're just going to make players play champions they do not understand in a role they do not want to play.

Like people want to feel impactful like "yeh I just hooked that guy" Rather. "Yeh I just shielded my ally."

(With that said, Pyke does need nerfs.)

Inviction7/26/2019, 7:30:54 AM1 votes

I Disagree.

The Kombinator7/26/2019, 10:19:52 AM1 votes

All of them beside Pyke are worthless in late. 51% winrate isn't exceptionally good though.

Longrange poker supports are the strongest on start, then goes to 2. after lvl 3. If they can't get kills, or assists, then very weak until lategame.

Tanks are the strongest after 3 until midgame. In teamfight tank supports are worthless, because they die fast, got low damage, and their CC isn't exceptional either. As game goes on they become weaker. Unless enemy is stupid enough to focus them.

Protectors are weakest on lanephase, and strongest in midgame. Unlike the longrange pokers they aren't dependent on getting kills/assists, and they have the CC of the tank combined with the ability to increase the damages' survival. In lategame longrange pokers goes back up to top, because they got bigger ratios, and deal more damage, than protectors can shield, or heal.

Special exceptions: Morgana In theory she counters ALL supports. Need good skill to actually do it though. But a strong Morgana wins botlane 100% of the time. She can still lose mid/lategame, or even lane phase, if enemy ganks more.

Soraka She is the only protector, that cannot be ignored. Her healing is way too strong for that unless your team is seriously fed. You need good focus, or at least focusing her, and heal reduction items.

Smyrage7/26/2019, 12:14:30 PM1 votes

Here comes the negatives, buuuuuut... you forget some things. Hook supports rely a lot on the ADC for lane control. That's why some hook supports actually take Ancient Coin instead of Relic Shield, because they'd prefer not to interfere with the lane control. Hook supports (apart from Pyke) have harder time engaging, when their opponents know how to position themselves. Shortly: their usefulness and relevance are depended on how the lane is going. They have high winrates, because at low elo, where nobody really knows how to control a lane and how to position themselves, they usually have easier time catching the enemy. But as you rise in skill and elo, they become more demanding, because their attacks are too predictable. Generally speaking, these are the weaknesses of the hook supports:

  • Heavy poke
  • Your ADC overextending
  • Poor lane control

These being said, and the fact that if the Hook support makes a bad decision/pick, he can give the enemy a huge advantage (hooking Leona for example). I'd say they are fine considering how demanding they can be, if your opponent knows how to play against hook supports.

And I don't really consider Nautilus a hook support, because his engage is more similar to Leona's, than to Blitzcrank's.

Pika Fox7/26/2019, 3:19:00 PM1 votes

I fail to see how this is a problem.

Play tanks/disengage champs into them.

Wrld War Z7/26/2019, 7:42:42 PM1 votes

Can I just say that while 17%+11%+8%+23% does equal to 59%, it does not mean that these four supports are played in 59% of games. That number is probably closer to lower 40% or even 30% of the games. There are two supports per game so many games can have a combination of two of those four supports playing in the same game. I will end this by saying that I am a support main with mastery 7 on all four of those champs if that helps.

NelsieLisnen7/26/2019, 8:15:38 PM1 votes

Pick Morgana, bye.

Silvereye877/26/2019, 9:08:46 PM1 votes

All numbers are balanced. They are not broken. Learn to play against them.

hoganftw7/26/2019, 11:07:40 PM1 votes

Blitz has such low utility compared to someone like Thresh or Pyke. I'd honestly take him off your hit list.

LordGeovanni7/26/2019, 11:26:15 PM1 votes

the easy nerf to hook support is something that shouldnt insta die upon being hooked. You cant play much safer ranged champions with much more damage then cry when you get hooked cause you didnt use your range advantage and get focused and still dont die because you have long range cc with heavy damage at most you need to recall if its 2v2 and you didnt waste your spells before getting hit. You can also put a pink in side bushes and protect them with your adc and support that makes sure that that they have no way to hook you because you can see all of their really long wind ups.