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Common misconception as a diamond veigar main.

Shifthappens·2/28/2015, 3:29:52 AM·4 votes·1,532 views

I've been maining veigar since alpha league. I remember when meteor had 1.5 sec and that his ult was based on mana%. After playing a dozen of game with the new veigar, I am sad to say that I will not continue to play him, the only champion I have all 9 skin of.

Riot, in his quest to maintaining a healthy gameplay with counter-play, totally broke a champion that already had counter-play skillwise, which was a champion that suffered from serious issues to be considered viable.

Here are some common misconception that riot bought into.

1."Veigar stun had no counter-play"

This statement from riot baffled me. Here's several exemple on how to counter-play veigar's stun:

  • If you're low because he poked you a bit or is winning lane, either stay away from his E range, or go back to town to heal (Just like you'd do against a leblanc or Zed or any assassin)

  • If he charge you to get in range for his E and you want to trade, move foward him as he reaches you. You'll avoid the stun that way and will be caged just like how riot intended to balance him

  • If you're winning lane, move foward him to bait a defensive stun, then you'll have 20 sec of kill potential.

  • Veigar is immobile when he casts at a caught target, this is where he's the most vulnerable

When I reach the late game, if I would catch someone, I would die right after because of my immobility.

Veigar stun is overpowered, but simply adding a delay destroy the champion and makes him another heimerdinger. My fix would be simple. Make it instant again, make it that champion leaving the circle get stunned, and champion entering (Or moving toward) the circle doesn't. It would nerf the spell, add a clear counter-play for everyone and increase the thematic of the champion.

This lead me to the issues of his stun. He needs it to do damage, which is why banshee's veil counter veigar like nothing else. My fix is as followed. Nerf his stun to 30 cd second at all lvl and make it pass through banshee's veil (Constant re-application) or make his meteor increase in size inside the circle. Both buff presented would increase his reliability to dmg in the late game.

2."The new Veigar has more Q stack than before because it hits 2 target"

This is simply not true. Riot nerfed a targeted spell that was used as a poke/trading skill, forcing veigar to only farm with it. Now veigar has more AP, but he can't bully/trade lane or drop them low enough for a kill opportunity. Before, I had ~90 AP by 20 minutes with ~4 kills. Now I have ~120 AP by 20 minutes with ~1 kill. You could go for 120 ap at 20 minute pre-nerf if you wanted to, but you had to Q farm only and let the enemy champion do what he wants.

There's a big issue that was added by making veigar a "farm only" champion. His mana. Before, I could do well enough with 2x doran ring or 1x doran 1x Vial because I would stop Q farming and harass and manage my mana for a kill. Now I'm forced to rush a Morelonomicon to keep up my farm because you removed all kill potential from the champion.

Reverting to his old Q is the best solution, or you could increase the range of Q and increase his mana regen.

3." X AD/Mobile champion counter old Veigar"

Again a huge misconception. The greatest counter to veigar are the beefy range AP that stand their ground and trade with him. Annie, Swain, Ryze all wreck him hard. They force me to play hyper defensive, delay my deathcap and buy MR. A good yasuo could be a pain, but nothing un-manageable. I would counter Zed/ahri hard. Ori is a equal match-up. Kassadin, Leblanc, Fizz and Katarina was easy. (Always depend on player's skills too)

Now ? Mobile champion are unplayable against in lane on top of the beefy ap. You have no way to trade with them, no way to stun them, no way to kill them.

4."DFG was a must item and veigar is destroyed without it"

Not at all. He would nuke for sightly less amount with deathcap but have higher sustain dmg with it. DFG also added the posibility of nuking down 2 target. His whole combo (e,w,DFG,q,r) was over killing squishy target and was simply a waste of dmg. Alot of situation Deathcap was better than DFG and I would simply skip over DFG. I would often go Deathcap > lichbane to abuse the insane amount of AP he had with the ratio of lichbane against tankish team.

5."His early game suck"

Again, not true. It all boil down to Q farm. If the enemy is aggressive, you had to chill on the Q farm and trade back and aim to get a kill at lvl 6 with your burst. If you wouldn't leave the mindset of Q farming, you'd get push out of the lane and starve. Some champion simply had a better kit to trade with him (Annie) and would obliterate him in lane, but that's the exception.

4 Comments

jakeape2/28/2015, 5:55:54 AM1 votes

I fucking miss old veigar. Your whole post made me remember everything I loved about that champ. Fucking Rito can suck every dick in the universe.

Bârd2/28/2015, 6:11:03 AM1 votes

I swear somone at riots balance section thinks that fun is not healthy for the game. First, they take the champion with arguably the best character in the game, heimerdinger, and reduced him into tickling people at full build. Then, they remove assassins and burst mages from the game due to "unhealthy playstyles" (despite that half of the job of the support is to keep assasins and burst mages in check). And to top it off, they removed revive. Karthus will never be the same rip in pepperonis.

air tiger2/28/2015, 6:17:13 AM1 votes

His stun had no counterplay ohhh qqqqqqqq. This is ridiculous and, at worst, embarrassing for those who claim it. A champion with a stun that lacks counterplay, in my opinion, would have a much higher pick rate in LCS. They'd also probably have a higher win-rate than ~50%. The fact is.. these false cries sound like rubbish coming from the mouths of people who haven't played Veigar. If they had, they'd know he was incredibly immobile (In the League of Mobility.. really..), squishy, and MANA HUNGRY. His stun was somewhat reliable, not ultra reliable, and it needed to be somewhat reliable to prevent anyone with a brain from crushing in on him.

Now, on the topic of the update

Q - Nerfed. I understand that Riot did not want Veigar to have 2 point and click damage skills, but lets call a nerf a nerf. It makes laning even harder, being that you are now encouraged to farm (and imposition yourself to do so) instead of harass. Mana is also an issue, should you ever intend on assisting your jungler with their ganks. It's for this reason alone that I feel Veigar should now start with a flask, 2 mana pots, and 1 health pot. You will be poked, and you will most likely do a bad job of poking them back. It's not too terrible, though. And, when your AP is high enough, Q can 1 shot minions creating a nice AP farm potential.

W - Buffed, a skill that will land a lot less. It had its strength sapped with the reliability of E being trashed, and this creates a synergy issue within his kit.

E - Nerfed, as stated previously, the reliability has been gutted with this .75s delay. Mana cost reduced and range increased to compensate, which it does not.

R - Nerfed, simply a reduction of the AP ratio.

Out of all of this rework, I only take issue with two things. E... Riot wanted opponents to have counterplay, and made it to where Veigar's own counterplay was crippled. Mobility can now not only get you out of the stun AOE, it can also get you past it entirely and right in Veigar's face. He's meat. This also crippled W. My second issue is that Riot nerfed the fuck out of Veigar and told everyone they were buffing him as compensation for taking DFG. War is peace.

My one and simple recommendation

Have E gain delay the further from himself Veigar is casting it. At full range, it would carry a .75s delay, but in immediate range and probably 50 out, it's instant. This is merely to AT LEAST protect an otherwise defenseless and immobile champ.

I'd love to host discussion on the said recommendation!

Shifthappens2/28/2015, 11:21:08 PM1 votes

We really need an update from riot on this matter.