Why is overtuning/buffing mage items a thing?

IOnlyNeedOneShot·12/15/2018, 5:20:12 PM·5 votes·1,590 views

Let´s start off in a simple way. Which boots are arguably the best? item 3020

Which boots had the most recent buffs? item 3020

Which boots were the best boots prior to that change? item 3020

Next off starting items.

So I placed all starting items in an order, beginning with the lowest winrate. item 1054 item 3302 item 1039 item 1055 item 3301 item 1041 item 1056 item 3303

I hope you´re able to recognize a clear pattern right here.

Following, completed items.

Starting with item 3116 This one´s easy. It´s safe to say that it´s quite niche, however on dot champions and especially combined with item 3151 it´s simply way too cost efficient and gives too much utility. In a direct comparison between item 3116 and item 3022 we have 20% slow for 1 sec on item 3116 , meanwhile item 3022 has the same slow for half a second longer whilst being unable to reproc. And yet it costs 500 gold more.

Ingame example: Brand uses his E, slows his target´s movement speed for 5 seconds, which allows him to easily hit his spell rotation. And we ALL know what this feels like.

Next up item 3135

Why does item 3135 give more penetration than item 3036 , even though it costs 150 less gold and gives 40 AP more than item 3036 gives AD?

Following that, we have item 3027

Why does item 3027 give 500 HP 400 Mana 100 AP and a great passive for simply 2700 gold and 10 minutes of passive scaling?

Ever thought about AD champions wanting to have a free scaling source without having to do anything that spikes on itself after completion and even heavier after stacking?

Then we have item 3030

This item might not look broken at first glance, however it has a strong synergy with Glacial Augment.

Despite it´s low costs, item 3030 once again gives everything a mage needs in order to not run oom the entire game and have even more utility.

item 3157.

Why is item 3157 even in the game. It´s unfun for everyone and for a cost of only 100 gold more than item 3026 , you successfully bought an item that is better in 9 out of 10 situations and additionally has a 3 minute shorter cooldown than item 3026.

Heck I even saw ADCs (even those without any ap scaling at all) go for this item before, since it´s often times the only counterplay to champions like Rengar and Zed.

Also there is item 3102 aka another great mage item AD champs will never get access too.

So what makes item 3102 special, you might ask?

Well, I didn´t believe it myself at first, however, for some odd reason item 3102 has more magic resistance than literally any tank item (item 3065 , item 3001 and item 3194 to name a few).

But as if that wasn´t enough it additionally gives you 75 AP and 10% Cdr and a free Malzahar passive.

item 3115 and item 3124 being the best ADC items in S8 says it all.

Next up on the list, item 3165.

Let´s break this down. Let´s use Vayne for example. (You could basically do this with almost every champion btw). So let´s say your mage was unable to proc sudden impact/ doesn´t have this rune. Vayne would still need to reach at least level 9 in order to not getting true damage anymore, as long as your let´s say Vladimir bought item 3020 and item 3165 (which are btw very very common items, especially built in the earlygame). And Keep in mind, Vladimir should be up 2 levels by then, which means he has a level 2 ultimate in his backpack.

Even though I already touched on item 3151 it´s so incredibly broken that it get´s its own spotlight right here.

Why is an item that gives you great burst, great damage against tanks and some survivability as well a thing?

Or why isn´t item 3151 banned for brand players? This would make the game more enjoyable, actually.

item 3040 kinda has the same problems item 3027 has. It might not be as powerful, however we can once again draw a conclusion by directly comparing it to item 3042.

If you take like ten seconds to spot the difference between item 3040 and item 3042 , you immediatly start to think about why item 3042 even is in the game.

Ekko with item 3100. All I´d need to say.

Why are AP champions becoming the best turret pusher all of a sudden? Does it really have to be this way?

Let´s take a quick look at item 3285 now.

This item lost all of it´s identity. Okay, maybe I lied. Maybe not all of it. It used to be a burst item. Nowadays it´s a burst item that also gives you infinite mana for the rest of the game as long as you´re not Karthus and your E key stopped working after you pressed it the first time.

And if that´s not enough, well, take 20% Cdr as well. Because that´s what modern balancing looks like.

item 3146 is also a stupid item. Useless on most champions, however, as soon as its viable on one, it immediatly makes the champion OP on its own.

Doesn´t sound all that healthy if you ask me.

And last, but certainly not least... item 3089.

Veigar , Veigar and once again Veigar.

I´m pretty sure I´d be lying if I´d say this isn´t the absolute most gold efficient item (if you forget item 1054 item 1055 item 1056 )

Besides that, where´s the AD version of that? Why are mages getting access to over 1000 AP, while bruisers etc. are happy when they reach the 400 AD mark?

So how am I gonna gonna say this... Rito PLEASE fix your game.

14 Comments

GFREEMEN12/15/2018, 6:59:22 PM4 votes

Its because traditional AP mages have long CD and rely solely on spells while AD champs have auto attacks that scale with the stat they build.

If Riot made mages auto attacks scale with AP then they could lower the AP items gold efficiency but they dont and wont.

Its why we dont see a AP Marksmen that gets AP for autos. To get that you have to build item 3115

If AP items were over tuned then we would see top win rate champs be all AP and we dont see that. We see top win rates be a mix of AP and AD champs. If anything Tanks are weak right now where the first one shows up at #21 as Ram Jungle.

Nyarlathοtep12/15/2018, 6:50:22 PM3 votes

Is this post a troll or something?

Which boots are arguably the best?

Well what do you expect? Mages need very VERY much mpen. Which is found in two items, one of which is boots. However this has its own downsides, being reliant so much. They cant swap them. Sometimes you need extra protection or tenacity. However someone like ziggs cant do it.

Rylais remains a pretty mediocre-bad item because of all the dashes around. And liandry reaches its max potential if you buy rylais. However lets say the enemy has dashes, rylais is pretty bad as an item.

Void staff has more %mpen than the ad counterpart because of the inherit limitations that abilities have. Aka cooldowns and mana costs. Also void staff lacks varieties like gw in exchange of less %adpen.

Roa is garbage in most champs because of how weak is early on. Its effects barring some champs are pretty bad on most mages.

Glp is and might be bought because glacial exists. Otherwise its a pretty bad item.

Why zhonyas is in the game? Because mages need a defensive item to help them survive some cancers like zed fizz akali talon etc.

Ga also in addition of reviving you, it also gives you back half of your hp and mana ( i think) . Its stasis duration is also longer. It also requires no thinking at all and you dont need to act to activate it.

Banshee's can be proced with ease by a stray ludens or stattik. Afterwards it goes into a 40 sec cd. In those 40 sec the mage has to play extremely passive in order to regain it. Also raw mr is useless without hp. So tank items still provide way better durability than banshees will ever grant. Also unlike malz's it blocks one spell while malz's lingers for .25 or so and reduces dmg by 90% in that time frame.

Rageblade has this popularity because of its passives. Double hit specifically. Before the last changes the bonus ad (and ap) where useful. However still adcs buy it for the double hit. And its not a mage item. Its an on hit/hybrid item. You wont see a veigar buy it.

Your example with morelo sucks because most mages have mana and need to rush a mana item in order to function. Yes until that level they will deal almost true dmg. Good however most of the times you can avoid the dmg from a mage. Also they can do it one or two times (their full rotation) without mana items.

Liandry's burst? What? Hello? Sure it gives hp. Riot wants mages to be beefy for reasons that i will never learn.

Seraph's takes A LOT of time to stack it. Apart one or two mages, they cant buy it because they dont have low enough cd spells to stack it in time. Also its active is fairly balanced. High cooldown AND mana cost unlike some items ad have (cough cough scimitar).

Lichbane? Well ad have its counterpart. Sure not exactly the same but its bought by assassins and requires aa. Duskblade.

Ludens gives infinite mana. My dear friend, go into the rift, pick someone like xerath and come back and tell me about that said infinite mana.

Gunblade is a hybrid item. Mages (apart one or two) cant make use of it.

Rabadons to multiple a mages carry potential. Just how ie multiples an adcs potential to carry.

Only a small handful of mages can reach 1000 ap. And in order to do so you have to avoid buying low ap items. Such as banshees or zhonyas.

Ap as a whole has higher numbers because of their limitation compared to ad since they have their aa that deal 100% of said ad. Atk speed also multiplies said dmg. Then there is crit.

Airbend12/15/2018, 5:33:23 PM2 votes

I said it many times i will say it again.There is no clear identety to champions in this game.There is no clear tanks, assasins, late game carrys, or mages.Every item need to give you - damage, tankines, mobility and some bulshitt passive that multiple all that.For example, you can go full tank Veigar and still get 800 AP just with item 3089 and hard af to kill.

IOnlyNeedOneShot12/15/2018, 6:18:20 PM2 votes

What I don´t understand are the three downvotes without a single word where or why I am mistaken.

These are probably tilted midlane mains that feel offended rn.

Or they don´t have enough time to comment. Which again would make no sense considering the fact they´ve had enough time to read through my post.

[sg-janna]

Power Cosmic12/15/2018, 7:50:17 PM1 votes

I think it mostly has to do with being able to reliably and safely stacking DH.

DGOT9/6/2019, 1:41:37 PM1 votes

lmao why the down votes thats all truth EDIT: after reading quite a bit of the comments i can say that most are really delusional the problem for me is that ap items are overtuned AND are mostly used from range yea if riven op as fuck champ goes into ur team and starts pentakilling your team u can easly burst her down if she overextends whit mages its quite a different story