Azir needs a more DPS based playstyle, rather than his current less attack speed, more Q burst style

Sanjibal·Jun 10, 2015·54 votes·3,402 views

Maybe lower the damage on his Q E and R, this will also make people think more about saving his E for mobility and his R for defense, as the designer expressed his disdain for people who do use it for burst. Increase his attack speed scaling and/or soldier power. Perhaps remove the shield on his E? Increase the cooldown on his Q? I don't know, it's just he has a brilliant design, that can be easy to balance.

45 Comments

shteeebJun 11, 201523 votes

I've always wanted them to gut the damage on his Q, but drastically lower the cooldown/mana cost. Make the slow have a cooldown of reapplying to the same target like Udyr stun, Ekko passive, ect.

It would be much more fun/interesting to be able to keep positioning your soldiers to dps. Some other things would need tweaking I'd think though. Like Soldier AP ratio (or let them apply Nashor Tooth on-hit), maybe further range from where he can AA with soldiers.

SmurfOfYixuanJun 11, 20151 votes

Wouldn't lowering Q's missile speed be a better idea? Q's damage is already pitiful, but it's nearly impossible to dodge since Azir alwaysspawns a soldier 200 range away from you before using Q.

plantersJun 11, 20151 votes

No. have you ever done a max range Q on Azir. Its painfully slow and easily dodged. making it slower would effect his repositioning skill for this more AS focused style as well. In reality what the STEEBAN said was probably best. Redirect damage from his Q and E into his soldiers so that he does more DOT with more soliders rather than have it be Q, aa until Q comes back up with E and R being their for trapping enemies and heavy CC.

humjackJun 12, 20151 votes

I'd worry he could be overly oppressive in lane if Azir had more freedom to move his soldiers about. Can we really have an autoattack mage with 800 range?

And he already does SO much damage lategame, I can't imagine what it would be like to actually give them more damage or on-hit effects, all whilst making them more mobile. If anything I think his soldier damage would have to be lowered if he had a very short/cheap Q cooldown.

Overall I just think his kit makes him very, very hard to balance for both the early lane phase and late game.

DarthSpectrumJun 11, 201516 votes

A major problem with Azir currently is that his soldier spawn radius on W is very low. He can't spawn a soldier even remotely close to most mid laners without being nuked. To get his soldiers in position, Azir inherently has to Q them towards the enemy.

Azir's designer might not approve his burst style game play, but really, he left Azir players no other options to do damage.

Baron of BreadJun 11, 20159 votes

They could lower Q's cooldown and damage at later levels. Less burst, better positioning.

Spicy RiceJun 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ugbENAnA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-06-11T01:51:14.786+0000)

They could lower Q's cooldown and damage at later levels. Less burst, better positioning.

they would have to buff his dps and his soldier then. I believe Azir before the soldier and q nerfs was actually pretty balanced. The only thing needed was taking away how fast he took down towers.

TheRakkunJun 11, 20151 votes

I agree completely, that's what I said at the time they nerfed him, he was probably the fastest tower taker in the game back then.

Drunk RummateJun 11, 20151 votes

I agree. From day one I always was in here suggesting they increase the W range and reduce the Q damage. It seemed so sensible to me because people were complaining about how much of a lane bully he was, but most of the damage was coming from Q and not soldier autos.

Increased W range to about 550 would allow them to shift more of his damage into auto attacks since it would be a lot more consistent and safer for him than using his Q for 100% of his soldier positioning.

BârdJun 11, 201511 votes

Maybe if they made the soldiers apply onhit affects, people would actually build that item that AZIR IS DESIGNED FOR. item 3070 item 3115

EK KimozziJun 11, 20151 votes

item 3100 for more burst :(

Spicy RiceJun 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spicy Pie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ugbENAnA,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-06-11T08:36:24.641+0000)

for more burst :(

AD Azir anyone? item 3153 Azir item 3031

TheRakkunJun 11, 20151 votes

Not sure IE would work but BOTRK would, If you want him ADC I think the best way would probably be (Assuming Life-steal applies too) item 3153 item 3085 item 3006 item 3025 item 3115 item 3152

PartholonianJun 12, 20151 votes

To be fair, I can't think of anyone who builds that item anymore, it's not just Azir. Onhits aren't an effective way to deal damage in the last couple years; either stack crit or burst and GTFO.

Teemo is designed for it too, arguably, and you don't see him build it (if he's played at all). Kayle might still build it, but when was the last time you saw a Kayle in anything other than ARAM, let alone in competitive play?

Krys StarJun 11, 20153 votes

Agreed. I think it is really stupid how you can't trade with him, because his soldiers can zone you away AND he can punish you severely with his burst. I'm okay if trading with him has a price ( soldiers ), but it's stupid that the trade will always be in his favor because of his added burst.

TheRakkunJun 11, 20151 votes

Well, it's not really, if he maxes out his soldiers (as an Azir will if he wants good damage) then you can easily all in him if you have some form of mobility given the fact that to escape he'd need to Q to a far away area (Which takes time as the soldiers have a finite speed) then E to them, however if you stand in his way it won't let him escape as it stops at the first champion it hits, which is easy to do in the time it takes for the Q to travel.

Father CthulhuJun 11, 20151 votes

By maxing out soldiers, I'm assuming you mean his W. And if you're maxing W first, you're playing Azir wrong.

TheRakkunJun 11, 20151 votes

Not what I mean, I mean using up all soldiers available, all charges, if they're all used up he can't place another to escape.

AbyssphereJun 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Well, it's not really, if he maxes out his soldiers (as an Azir will if he wants good damage) then you can easily all in him if you have some form of mobility given the fact that to escape he'd need to Q to a far away area (Which takes time as the soldiers have a finite speed) then E to them, however if you stand in his way it won't let him escape as it stops at the first champion it hits, which is easy to do in the time it takes for the Q to travel.

Azir's soldier damage scales with his level, not with levels in the ability. Your damage will not directly increase by leveling your W.

TheRakkunJun 11, 20151 votes

Not what I mean, I mean using up all soldiers available, all charges, if they're all used up he can't place another to escape.

TengrichanJun 11, 20152 votes

How to fix Azir: Revent the range buff on soldiers attack range from 375 back to 325.Revent the passthrough range to 100 from 50. Increase the AP ratio on soldiers attack. Increase the tower smite dmg. Decrease the base dmg on his Q. Decrease the cooldown on Q along with mana cost. Add a cooldown for reapplying the slow on Q to prevent permaslow. Make an exception with Luden's Echo and let the soldiers generate X amount of stack with every auto attack. FIX HIS BUGS ALREADY.

The LovelessJun 11, 20152 votes

He's fine IMO. His Q and multi-soldier attacks are plenty damage. Just don't buy nashor's or lich bane lol.

Meep ManJun 11, 20151 votes

They should have made him a second summon instead of his E so that he could be true to his "Emperor" design. I have always liked the thought of Sand Archers (don't remember where I saw this one, but its not my idea) that were longer range than Sand Soldiers, but weren't dashed around with Azir's Q. Their basic attacks could be moderate speed and width skill shots that pierce.

OJ191Jun 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ugbENAnA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-06-11T04:51:54.587+0000)

They should have made him a second summon instead of his E so that he could be true to his "Emperor" design. I have always liked the thought of Sand Archers (don't remember where I saw this one, but its not my idea) that were longer range than Sand Soldiers, but weren't dashed around with Azir's Q. Their basic attacks could be moderate speed and width skill shots that pierce.

Gut Q damage, maybe buff cooldown to be lower Replace E with archer summon, for which pressing Q fires a piercing line skillshot with the same range as the melee soldier Q-dash?

could be interesting

Sergeant StephenJun 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ugbENAnA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-06-11T04:51:54.587+0000)

They should have made him a second summon instead of his E so that he could be true to his "Emperor" design. I have always liked the thought of Sand Archers (don't remember where I saw this one, but its not my idea) that were longer range than Sand Soldiers, but weren't dashed around with Azir's Q. Their basic attacks could be moderate speed and width skill shots that pierce.

But he's a newer champ, he has to have mobility somehow.

Señor KarthusJun 11, 20151 votes

I still build Azir for AS thinking to be a hypercarry late game. And it works wonders. You only need to not die early. item 3115 and item 3124 + item 3089 item 3020 item 3174 + whatever other situational item you might need turn him into a killing machine late game and an insane pusher turret destroyer with powerfull super fast aa + W smashing turrets down in 3 seconds. In teamfights you just send soldiers with Q and rarely have to E in. You just kill people in the safe distance with 3 hits. Try it.

DownfallJun 11, 20151 votes

Taking a few ideas from the thread already, they could gut Q damage and then make soldiers apply on hit-effects, acting as auto attacks from azir. This would mean they also apply basic attack damage (Cannot crit ofc otherwise adc azirs everywhere). But then you'd see a deadly item 3115 item 3042 Combo. But this would also make blinds affect his soldiers, I mean honestly how is he going to control his soldiers and make them try and hit something he cant see so far away and hit it, but when tryndamere is swinging his sword around at something infront of him when he's blind he can't hit it.

MLDzXnRRRJun 11, 20151 votes

Why would you build him DPS when he 1shots people with Ludens lategame, if they don\t have Banshee or high MR and Hp?

FalconPawwwwnchJun 11, 20151 votes

I wish something like Nashor's tooth would be good on azir, but it's better to just abuse his burst instead

It just seems like such a perfect azir item

WumachineJun 11, 20151 votes

I think letting the soldiers apply on hit effects and lowering the cooldown and mana of his q would make him amazing, currently it's just so easy to side step out of his soldier range.

Sire HippingtonJun 11, 20151 votes

The problem isn't the damage on Q, it's the absured damage on W. one W-AA already outdamages Q mid to late, and usually you will be able to land 1-2 AAs after Q. Q+2AA = 535+1.7ap damage in a single poke rotation throw in an E and the ult aswell as another AA for the all-in burst combo: 1185+3.3ap (510+1.8ap from AAs alone), which will be applyed in ~2sec, while he also CCs for ~1.5sec with e+R The problem with Azir is that he has more than enough dps, actually so much that he can burst down targets(like a lategame Yi or Fiora)

SerBlaiseJun 11, 20151 votes

I tried Azir out, thinking he would fulfill the 'commanding soldier fantasy' but I was not impressed; he isn't made to send different soldiers wherever he wants and the way Q works is much too rigid for that fantasy. Perhaps another champion will come along that can truly fulfill that commander of the chess pieces role.

Drunk RummateJun 11, 20151 votes

Heimerdinger fills that niche pretty decently, actually.

SerBlaiseJun 11, 20151 votes

In that sense you could say zyra (who i really have yet to play) and ori do as well....just not to that Real Time Strategy Game level that I was hoping for. heim and zyra both drop immobile turrets esentially. Ori is closest imo, and she is probably my third favorite mid laner.

Drunk RummateJun 11, 20151 votes

Yeah but in a sense of commanding multiple things, Orianna works a lot like Azir (all the eggs in one basket) where Heimer and Zyra both can at least spread their damage out a bit strategically.

TheRakkunJun 11, 20151 votes

Azir main here.

I don't think there's much problem with Azir, it only becomes a Q-Burst play style late game, but I remember meddler saying they're going to look at his AS scalings, problem with Azir is that items just don't blooming work for him because of his kit item 3100 item 3115 item 3091 item 3085 Won't work because his soldier auto-attacks don't apply on hit effects item 3146 item 3152 item 3116 aren't effective because his soldier's AA's are counted as AOE damage and as such have reduced effects.

You simply can't build him DPS, sadly, and I think burst is the route they want him to go down, as they nerfed his repositioning range with his Q, honestly they should: Remove damage from Q or gut it Increase Q range Increase Q slow Increase W scaling Increase W range. Increase Q speed Allow his W to apply on-hit effects as well Remove W pass through OR let it apply Spell-Vamp and Rylais 100% effectiveness. Perhaps a small AP Scaling on his shield? I only ever see his E used as a gap closer into his ult.

SolusInCadereJun 13, 20151 votes

No, just no, this would make him way oo strong

Vistha KaiJun 11, 20151 votes

Most people her propose lowering Q damage and lowering it's cooldown.

But you know it's one of Azir's main weaknesses too? Like you save your mobility spell for after he Q's so he's is a bad spot.

s LessThanThreeJun 11, 20151 votes

Imagine if they made Azir soldiers be able to crit, do 1:1 ad ratio and apply on hit.

Azir with TF, IE, PD, Lucidity Boots, Shiv, Last Whisper GG

FistOfSharkieshaJun 11, 20151 votes

He's a pretty unhealthy mid laner because of this. He can poke down your health without even getting in range of your AA or abilities and then he can even burst you down under your turret because he's full hp and you're half health.

MigrañaboyJun 12, 20151 votes

People don't build Nashor Tooth Azir as it's somewhat risky, also players will react to your Q's (wether escaping or nuking) when getting 1 - 2 hit from AA (asumming you don't have ult available), of course DPS Azir does shitton of damage when team set ups the ground for you.

I don't know if it's called Burst Azir when going full AP, but I know that at least is more focused on poking effectively with just Q+1 AA, which is safer as it lets you reposition. If soloing someone, E + ult can be the nail in the coffin, but these tools stay true for DPS Azir anyway.

Ariel the CruelJun 12, 20151 votes

As a player of Bruiser Azir, I'm in full favor of this. Though hitting his Q/W/E cooldowns might be a bit much, since he's highly reliant on repositioning (hence [why I assume] he's mana gated instead). And while hitting the shield would be a valid option, It's a tad valuable when trying to send a squishy into the middle of a fight.

SwiftKitten88Jun 12, 20151 votes

the only real problem i have with azir is his ultimate. i dont mind that it's unpathable, but dont have ti knock me back too. my own skill shouldnt cc myself. its should fail as if i tried to dash over a wall that was too big, but not cc me

SolusInCadereJun 13, 20151 votes

Gonna take a lot of the ideas I like below and devise a possible new kit for Azir:

Passive: same stuff

Q: has sand soldiers deal damage around them in a circle (maybe the range of their auto attack hitboxes, which extend slightly beyond auto attack range). Also cause sand archers to fire a pass thru skillshot. Both of these slow enemies hit

W: same stuff, except sand soldiers now intercept one incoming spell projectile, which destroys them upon contact. Also, there is a brief delay when conjuring the sand soldier, some kind of sand rising from the ground to form a soldier animation. Larger cast range

E: now conjures a sand archer with ranged auto attacks, which will attack targets in range that Azir orders, instead of Azir attacking. Basiclly an alternative sand soldier. These ability also operates under an ammo system, in fact, it could be same ammo system that his W operates on (they could share an ammo system). Cast range equal to old W cast rang,e or new W cast range (balancing thing). This ability has the same delay as W

R: Syndra ultimate but with Azir sand soldiers (they would be destroyed upon contact thou). Lol, that was a half joke, no, the other option could be the same as he used to have. Also possible to increase the range of his sand archers with each rank of this, or just at certain levels for Azir himself, this would help late game, but if he already is good, leave it out

My thoughts: this would take away all of his mobility, but I don't think he should have it, thematically or mechanically. He's an emperor, he's not charging to battle with his solders nor is he running away with them like a p*ssy. No, he is standing and fighting, always! This gives him more DPS with less burst, especially if the sand soldiers operate on a common ammo pool. That way, in lane, he sets up an army to zone (this would have to be balanced to not be oppressive), and in teamfights, he could throw his soilders at the enemy carries to block their damage and attack them, and/or set up archers for more sustained damage

Any thoughts?