Hybrid Champions: Was There Ever Any Intention?

evilswitchkix·4/13/2016, 11:33:59 PM·1 votes·573 views

I've always been confused by the lack of hybrid options in this game, especially considering how there are many champions that scale defensively with ap and offensively with ad. Was there every any intention to make viable hybrid champions and will there be in the future? It seems like if we could make hybrids relevant and effective it would offer a lot more diversity to itemization and laning phases. Unfortunately there are many champions atm that suffer from ap scaling with no real benefit to investing in ap such as Gangplank. Example: as soon as you deviate from an ad path or start to address his lack of mana through ap items (which his ulti and heal scale with) you fall severely behind in lane. I guess I'm not really sure why ad champions scale certain spells with ap when ultimately it makes no sense to invest in any ap items when loading up on ad makes way more sense with their kits/gameplay.

5 Comments

SaltyKracka4/13/2016, 11:39:59 PM1 votes

Riot has tried to make hybrid champs before.

Inevitably they end up building either all AD or all AP, so of course they whined about how they wanted hybrid items so that they could scale with both stats at once.

Riot tried making hybrid items, and they were either so OP that the champs had to be balanced around their existence or they weren't built in the first place.

So...no. Riot's tried before, it failed horribly.

TheThundersRoar4/13/2016, 11:47:54 PM1 votes

There are champions that scale with both. Akali Jax Katarina EzrealCorki to name a few.

The problem with powerful hybrid scalings is that they make certain items extremely cost-efficient. item 3124 item 3146 and old item 3078 were all items that provided huge amounts of damage because hybrid champions could effectively use all of their stats.

This gives these champions 1-item power spikes, which really isn't too fun to play against. If they get it early they wreck, if they get it after being shut down they come back, etc. And since it gives so much damage, you could see champions like Jax go full tank after a single one of these damage items because that's all the damage he ever needs.

67chrome4/13/2016, 11:54:52 PM1 votes

Hybrid Champions: Was There Ever Any Intention?

Riot has played around a lot with hybrid champions, and there are viable ones like Kayle Jax

Hybrid champions run into a few major issues though.


First: item scaling. If you get AD, AS, Crit, Armor Pen, and life steal: each stat multiplies the effectiveness of all the others, resulting in 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 32. With AP, Lich Bane, M Pen, Rabadon's: same deal. With AP and AD stats: it's just a 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 10 road. AP and AD have no innate synergy with one-another, resulting in no real drive or incentive to invest heavily in a late-game hybrid build. So no champions invest in a late-game hybrid build. Many champions get 1 hybrid item to start with like item 3078 to ride the early-game powerspike and adjusted cost-effeciency of such items due to needing to be cheap early to offset their lack of scaling late, but pretty much everyone stops at 1. Once you get into 2 major item core builds you start loosing power from grabbing 1 hybrid item, and you loose a ton of power if you maintain a hybrid build 3 major items in.


Secondly: the in-game implications of hybrid damage, counterbuilding, and on what champions it's useful on.

Pure-damage carries are pretty easy to target with counterbuilds at the moment, with armor items targeting auto-attacking (item 3110 item 3075 item 3143 item 3047 item 3082 ) or with MR items countering more ability-centric things like burst damage, CC, AoE, or long-range poke in (item 3102 item 3155 item 3156 item 3140 item 3139 item 3111 item 3190 )

When it comes to hybrid damage split between abilties and auto-attacks though, sustain and burst: there aren't any good defensive items that hit everything, and as physical, magical, auto-attack, and ability damage all completely ignore half of the effects from a range of defensive items.


Ultimately the combination of bad offensive itemization and poor counterbuilding defensive itemization with Hybrid damage favors champions that need to do relevant damage throughout the course of a game through bases, and is pretty anathema to champions that actually need glass-cannon offense with AD and AP.

As such: hybridized damage that mixes physical, magical, auto-attack, and ability damage is extremely common in a wide range of predominantly HP scaling champions in: Udyr Shyvana Garen DrMundo Jax Nasus Renekton Trundle Volibear Warwick

So: it's not so much hybrid champions don't exist, it's just that hybrid damage is set aside for champions that simply won't itemize heavily in damage. In the case of most of the champions listed: AD and AP aren't terribly cost-effective, and it's much easier to rack up damage from items that just offer physical or magical sources of damage that specifically aren't AD or AP in items like: item 1403 item 3091 item 3025 item 3078 item 3057 item 3153 item 3091 item 3068


Tanky DPS: the true hybrid champions.

BerserkGoldfish4/14/2016, 12:27:49 AM1 votes

I myself used to like hybrid shyv (this was before the feral flare and its followers), but yeah when hybrid gets strong, it gets too strong. Not sure if you were playing a few years back, but it had loads of balance problems mostly because of like Akali and Jax who would just rush item 3146 and hit a huge powerspike

Seraphim1174/19/2016, 5:37:27 PM1 votes

On a slightly different note, it would be nice if some ad champs could build ad and vice versa, skarner and gp could be ap if they scaled slightly harder, and that would be cool