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The direction taken with Vayne is disappointing and her "role as a marksman" doesn't match her lore

LordKentravyon·11/2/2015, 10:27:44 PM·5 votes·491 views

TL:DR: Although from a purely gameplay & balance perspective the preseasons changes to Vayne are an improvement, I find the state of Vayne to be disappointing. Her status as a "hyper carry tank killer" does not line up with her lore that describes her as a cold vigilante. (Literally league's Batman) I feel that if her strengths were shifted away from tank shredding and even more focused on her ability to 1v1 / pick out a single target she would be more interesting as a whole. (She is close tbh but not quite) Leaving her as a hypercarry also seems to contradict riots goal of "differentiating marksmen in the marksman update"

First and foremost before people start looking it up and yelling, No I don't play Vayne myself, Although I generally fill ADC is one of my lower picked roles. However I am basing this off Lore and the "champion fantasy / identity" standpoint that Riot has mentioend on many occasions as of late. (Consider the GB and Fiora reworks, regardless of what their balance state is they FIT their identity and fantasy as a terrifying Pirate / Grand Duelist) On that note I am putting out my opinion on the matter and looking forward o see any responses. Feel free to agree / criticize w.e. but I would love to see some discussion about it.

Now I have placed several lore quotations at the bottom of the page, that for me just really illustrate the kind of champion Vayne is.

My issue is that a hypercarry doesn't suit her thematically but riot has confirmed this is the direction they intend on balancing her.
"This said we still view Jinx as a hyper carry (along with Kog and Vayne)" - Riot GypsyLord http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/11/red-post-collection-preseason.html

Let's compare these 3 examples.

KogMaw The games litteral of Glass Cannon + Hypercarry. a Void monster who although fragile, if left unchecked will dissolve one's defenses with his acidic saliva and eat you regardless of how well protected you were. Jinx A crazy girl with a bloody rocket launcher and minigun. She's looking to have a blast causing as much trouble / damage as possible and well she has some of the best tools available for the job.

Vayne A coldhearted **hunter ** with crossbows. (fitted with special silver bolts for hunting the black arts) She does not rely on her raw power, but her determination, cunning, and relentless pursuit of evil ones. Hunting down her targets one at a time.

Vayne's kit is so close to his as well

Her passive gives her MS when moving towards enemy champions Tumble and Condemn give her outplay potential in a 1v1 (as well as a larger fights) Her R reinforces these strengths aspects

and despite its problems Silver Bolts do accomplish 1 crucial thing. They do encourage her to dedicate herself to hunting a specific target (for at least 3 autos)

But what if some of the Raw power was shifted out of Silver bolts and put into other abilities? (This is what I was hoping to see)

Riot you said on numerous points the purpose of this marksman update was to differentiate adcs but rather then embracing Vayne as an ADC with a more unique capability get her target and to stand firm in a 1v1 with other champs (both marksman and those who would normally threaten them) You just kept her in the same category of others who actually belong there thematically.

By the time she was a fully grown woman, she had become a grim warrior. However, the fields of battle were not to be her home. Demacia needed a protector, one who hunted those lost to the darkness. Shauna used her family's contacts to become the first Night Hunter, and now her prowess is the stuff of legends. It is said that those who practice the black arts quake when they hear that the Night Hunter is on the prowl. Despite her crusade, Shauna has looked at the League of Legends in horror. There are champions who have clearly lost themselves to the blackest of magics, and who have been embraced within the League even though they should be put down for the safety of all. The time has come for the Night Hunter to execute her secret mission - to purge the League of Legends. > "Not all shadows are to be feared. At least, if Vayne has her way."

  • Vayne's Lore

The witch's trail is obvious, even by moonlight. That last silver bolt had hit home, if the blood is any indication. The prey is slowed.

The witch is attempting to use hemomancy to close her wounds. From the looks of things, more than one of the silver bolts has landed. However, now the witch sees her and the magic changes. Droplets of blood fly towards her like a cloud of razors, but she effortlessly tumbles over a barrel and out of the way. Her crossbow is up before her feet even touch the ground and she fires. The bolt flies true, impaling the witch's casting hand and halting her vile spells.

"Haley Manner, you have fallen to the practice of the black arts. You have willingly harmed others. You are condemned."

She does not wait for the witch to respond with lies. She draws the great crossbow over her shoulder and unleashes its massive projectile. It strikes the witch with such force that it carries her back and into the wall of the public house, impaling her there, limp and silent at last.

She can already hear the hue and cry. Though she is an agent of justice – many would say vengeance – Vayne's activities are not sanctioned by Demacian law. Nimbly, she leaps up, grabs hold of a ledge, and flips herself on top of the building. Leaping from roof-top to roof-top, she fades away into the darkness.

Such is the way of the Night Hunter.

  • League Judgment Observation

The summoners stared at her uneasily. After all, few potential champions have ever broken into one of the inner sanctums of the Institute of War, startled powerful summoners, and plainly demanded to be allowed into the League of Legends. Fortunately, Vayne's reputation had preceded her, so there was no need for violence.

To know my enemies. Though your magics keep them alive through defeat, I will learn more hunting those champions who are abominations than I would hunting their inferiors in the world."

  • League judgement relfection

8 Comments

Hayaishi211/2/2015, 10:41:00 PM3 votes

Even if you're right, people don't care, they just want to see Vayne nerfed in any possible way, like me,

Abyssphere11/2/2015, 11:07:47 PM3 votes

I've thought about this before, but I think the tank busting thing suits her indirectly. Basically Silver Bolts is thematically excellent because the idea that nobody is safe from Vayne's attempts to kill them is executed perfectly with % HP true damage.

It just so happens that this type of damage is strongest against tanks. Being a tank shredder doesn't immediately fit her lore, but her damage being strong against everyone naturally makes her fit in as a tank killer here.

I mean if you think about it, if Vayne would consider working for others, she would be the one people would call on if there was an evil person/creature that was highly resistant to conventional weapons, because her silver bolts would surely get the job done. And what are you in League if you're highly resistant to damage? A tank.

Gnart Even Close11/2/2015, 11:45:58 PM2 votes

She should be more directed to fighting assassins and mages than tanks if the lore was to be considered. One way of doing that would be to do flat true damage instead of %health true damage, which would also have a lot more counterplay item-wise. Plus the three-hit proc is a great archetype, as it is well telegraphed and allows for counterplay via Warden's Mail and its upgrades. All the %health true damage should be removed from the game, as it does not make sense because it lacks counterplay. Making Vayne more of an assassin herself would be interesting, as that would also fit her role better.

EcchiOtakuTM11/3/2015, 5:00:51 AM1 votes

Or we could just rework the lore, problem solved. I do like where they cemented vayne,

LordKentravyon11/4/2015, 1:59:29 AM1 votes

Bump for more discussion ?