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Can we talk about Poppy?

Presently Absent·10/30/2016, 3:23:26 PM·37 votes·5,092 views

Poppy doesn't always win her games, but she kind of always wins in her own way. How many times during World's did we see teams pick Poppy into losing match-ups, end up down 40+ cs, and yet as soon as she builds Sunfire she becomes impossible to deal with regardless of how rough her laning phase was.

You can't gank her. She can knock the entire team away, charge off, speed herself up, and slow you on top of being generally difficult to kill in the first place. You can't starve her because all she needs is one item and one good W, E, or R to shift an entire fight. Even the go-to anti "wall of stats" champion Trundle can't do anything to Poppy. She stuns him against his own pillar and runs away while having more presence in 5v5. He can't even touch her 1v1 with Subjugate up.

She's incredibly tanky and brings lots of crowd control along with respectable damage. She's really good at disrupting, really good at making picks, really good at disengaging, and really good at teamfighting. So how exactly is Poppy meant to be kept down? What other tanks can compete with her? The only one I can think of that comes close to bringing her level of disruption and mobility is tank Ekko.

107 Comments

TheHappyReaperz10/30/2016, 4:17:31 PM26 votes

It is strange how building full tank on a champion reduces your ability to kill them. Also did you see the Poppy/Trundle tank fights? In the longer ones, Trundle would ult and bring Poppy down to half, while she did minor damage to him. As for tanks that counter Poppy? Sion always works well for me, because of his armor shred and max health damage. Nautilus is also pretty good, as his ult makes use of her mobility in teamfights.

ItsOrval10/30/2016, 3:28:25 PM19 votes

I know the feeling. I was 3/0 top lane a few games ago against a Poppy with 50+ more cs than her. Then once she got sunfire I could not kill her no matter how hard I tried.

Simpumba10/30/2016, 5:51:14 PM19 votes

poppy is never played and people think she's bad

gets played in worlds a lot

WTF WHY SO OP.

I'll never understand this community.

Can I have my downvotes now?

Besthunterjk10/30/2016, 3:25:36 PM18 votes

The poppy circlejerk people from Gameplay and Bronze will downvote you into oblivion.

But yeah, fuck that champion.

Anags10/30/2016, 5:03:47 PM12 votes

She gets really tanky and provides great utility in a coordinated game. She seems fine to me in solo q though. She is fine but sure lets ask for nerfs for every champ played at worlds.

Sounds like normal forum stuff.

Linna Excel10/30/2016, 4:00:56 PM11 votes

Yes, even the shout casters mentioned that Poppy is a good pick when your top laner is the team's weak link.

I kind of wish riot tweaked her numbers so that she has to build a little damage to deal damage: ie bruiser poppy.

TyrekGoldenspear10/30/2016, 6:00:48 PM7 votes

But she's a Warden.

She peels and tanks. She has the kit for it. She is supposed to be tanky.

She does her job well. I fail to see the problem.

EcchiOtakuTM10/30/2016, 5:19:37 PM7 votes

In terms of soloQ noone's going to be using TP flanks as well as worlds' players.

While in comp play

Poppy still turned into a subjugate snack buffet when being ganked vs a trundle.

Poppy gets destroyed by gnar's % damage and frozen mallet.

Poppy can't do much if E'ing into a wall isn't possible because most can't follow up.

She's a great bodyguard as she should be but in SoloQ her issues of needing setup also starts to show up more and more. Not to mention SoloQ can get away with % damage more.

Also if ulti isn't used right and E doesn't hit a wall she can be ignored and most of her team taken out.

Immortal spax10/30/2016, 8:36:16 PM6 votes

Absurd! A tank that tanks, RITO PLZ

The Deckowner10/30/2016, 4:36:19 PM5 votes

other tanks are not getting played because ranged top laner is cancer, not because they can't compete with poppy. Poppy is strong because she can survive ranged top laners.

Skia Asteri10/30/2016, 7:22:14 PM5 votes

Lets compare to some ranked queue stats.

Poppy vs Jayce http://champion.gg/matchup/Poppy/Jayce/Top Poppy vs Trundle http://champion.gg/matchup/Trundle/Poppy/Top

These slightly win lane on average but typically not by enough to win the game. Matches what was observed at Worlds.

Poppy vs Darius http://champion.gg/matchup/Poppy/Darius/Top

This guy wins the lane much harder and it is typically enough to win the game. But he is not considered viable in competitive despite being popular for the ranked ladder.

Poppy vs Maokai http://champion.gg/matchup/Maokai/Poppy/Top

Actually falls slightly behind on average but is on average more useful despite that and therefore wins the game. Though the sample size is a bit small and he has a lot more bad match ups in soloq.

Poppy vs Nasus http://champion.gg/matchup/Nasus/Poppy/Top

Obviously Nasus received major changes after the worlds patch, but it is the same as Maoki except the sample size is larger.

TL;DR

Just because the good picks against a champion are not played at Worlds does not mean they do not exist and are good in non-pro play.

It also helps that LeeSin is common both at Worlds and in SoloQ (almost 35% pick rate globally in Plat+ games), and Poppy is really good at shutting him down.

TurquoiseYoshi10/30/2016, 4:59:20 PM5 votes

I think to beat Poppy, you beat her in the splitpush and take advantage of the fact that she does basically no damage to anything. This is why Trundle is her prime counterpick, he pushes up quickly with Hydra, takes no damage from her/heals anything back with his ult, and takes out a tower while she tries to kill the minion wave.

I'm not really sure, but that makes sense to me.

chipndip110/30/2016, 7:27:56 PM4 votes

Poppy doesn't need a nerf stop whining.

S0kaX10/30/2016, 3:39:51 PM4 votes

Well I destroyed a Poppy with Sion , so I will say pick Sion .

a special one10/30/2016, 10:54:33 PM3 votes

so much exaggeration

EpikFeeder10/30/2016, 8:45:36 PM3 votes

So we have a tank that actually....TANKS....and we are complaining? Just.....wow...

God Raijin10/30/2016, 6:28:38 PM2 votes

shes just a ball of free tank stats, and regardless of how far ahead or behind you are CC'ing someone late game is just as strong

jeremiahBIO10/30/2016, 5:57:36 PM2 votes

Here we go.........

Spoofghoul10/30/2016, 6:23:20 PM2 votes

You know why this happens?

because of her w passive & her shields as well as % damage

this makes her really annoying to duel even if you got ahead

she pretty much gets more stats out of her cheaper defensive items then u get out of your offensive items and then she also packs % damage and shields

The shield scales with her increased stats too more armor = more shielding and because of the % damage she doesn't really fall behind damage wise anyway

she is hard to keep down and shines in team fights those are her main strengths.

Jeddy01710/30/2016, 7:20:35 PM2 votes

NO, Poppy is perfect & I'm totally not biased at all. You can't take my Poopy away from me!!

Now that that's out of the way. Yeah, she could use a little toning down in some aspects.

Big Lincoln10/30/2016, 4:24:32 PM2 votes

prolly cuz she's a minority of tanks that's still tanky and gets to exist top lane

but ya I remember saying poppy wasn't healthy like Silvers love to jerk off about and I catch downboats every time

Beldair10/31/2016, 8:33:25 AM2 votes

As a Poppy player myself, she is not as strong as you think.

I play her Top, Jg, and Support (shocking I know XD).

Some keys points when fighting her:

  1. Avoid walls. That allows her to stun you and follow up with a full Q hit and maybe even a knock up from her ult to allow her to stun you again.

  2. Don't stand in the slow area from her Q because you are asking to take more damage.

  3. Build armor penetration items since most Poppy's build tank.

  4. Never group in teamfights. She has a greater chance of hitting her ult if you group.

Now when I play Poppy, I build her sort of Bruiser like... Black Cleaver, Swifites, Warmog, DMP, Botrk, and Titanic Hydra are my goto items for her. She is Tanky but still has the dmg needed to hold her own plus the life steal to stay in the fight and ms to get into the fight.

Jasiwel10/30/2016, 5:12:09 PM1 votes

Her base damage values are too high (yes, I know she's a tank, please read). Watching her build 100% defensively and still deal notable damage is frustrating, especially given even Trundle had to build a Ravenous Hydra. This fact became especially noticeable during Worlds, where her worse matchup involved playing against Trundle of all champions and she basically had to go full damage sponge. Even then, if she caught a carry then they were dead, and she had zero bonus AD ratios to accomplish it (QER damage require bonus AD). Even with the argument "BUT THEY HAD NO RESISTANCES", Poppy did not have Bonus AD of any kind to bolster her damage.

If Riot made it to where she only needed to buy a small amount of AD (Titanic Hydra, Cleaver, Triforce) to make up the difference, I'd be okay with it. But her itemization is way too easy for the damage she does, which warps her intended strengths and weaknesses.

That doesn't even mention how she can just ding a target into the air with her ultimate, not even needing to wind it up, with almost no time for her opponent to react. Poppy's ultimate is powerful and the whole point of the wind-up is to broadcast that she is about to cast it. What isn't okay is that she uses it as a cheap knockup with almost no counterplay due to the abysmal window her target has to react.

Edit: I am trying to contribute to the discussion here. Stop downvoting because you simply disagree.