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Tank main about tank state and Ornn future work

mihaigon·3/16/2018, 4:40:51 AM·11 votes·675 views

Hello everyone. I only want to talk here about tanks dealing damage, not about ninja tabi being too op or anything "defense wise". I'm a tank main, mostly playing Shen, Poppy, Maokai and Sion. I'm plat V currently, last leason was plat II. In order to function, a tank needs to deal some kind of damage. A thing i noticed in almost all tanks, is that they deal pretty subtantial damage, but only if u let them too. Let me explain this by giveing examples: Shen: He is only dealing "too much damage" if he manage to get his sword throught you. If u manage to dodge and outsmart him, he is not dealing damage at all mostly. Ofc he can E-Q and get the buff, but that has a 18 second cooldown in lane. Poppy: She must stun you in a wall in order to get both procs of her Q in order to deal significant damage. This can be avoided by smart positioning. Sion: Most of Sion damage is in his R and his W. His R can be avoided, pretty easly I would say in most cases, and you can either leave his W range, or you can destroy his shield before he can reactivate W. Don't want to talk about his current state as one of the best top laners. I personally play him with Grasp like a true tank. Maokai: He only outtrades you if you fight in bushes and you get hit by his E. Let's not talk about his passive maybe being a little too strong.

As of Ornn, he was really unbalanced after the buffs becouse he wasn't respecting this pattern. He could just outdamage everyone with W and basic attack whenever he wanted with almost no counterplay. The "tank way" of dealing damage for Ornn was if he managed to hit his E in his Q and deal the extra damage. I really hate that Riot decided to change that. I really suggets that Ornn W and passive damage should recive some nerfs if needed, but bring back the extra damage when hit terrain on E, so he can have Q for slow, W mainly for the shield, and E for his primarly CC and dmg ability.

Please keep this post tank friendly, i know how tanks can be opressive and boring lanes, but this post is just to help with ideas to balance Ornn.

16 Comments

T4underbolt3/16/2018, 4:37:17 PM4 votes

No. The tanks deal too much DMG even after missing half of their abilities. Thanks to riot you can't win lane Vs a tank anymore unless you play equally broken tank and right click faster. Ninja tabi though is too efficient and do are most tank items. Providing so much hp and defenses while having utility and DMG at the same time(e.g. dead man's plate) is just ridiculous. There should be a trade off. Either build DMG like items or tanky items. Not both.

Daddy Tie Me Up3/16/2018, 4:55:14 PM4 votes

In order to function, a tank needs to deal some kind of damage.

No they dont. They did not need to deal damage in season 3, in season 4, in season 5. All tanks had average win rates despite them dealing 1/3 of the damage they deal today. There are tools for tanks to function with literally 0 damage. There are runes that heal your allies for CCing enemy, runes that give you pushing power with no damage items, runes that give your allies shield based on your max hp. There are items that transfer damage from carries to tanks. Tanks also substantially higher moblity than bruisers depsite having more damage as well. What tanks need is one huge fucking nerf.

A thing i noticed in almost all tanks,

Not almost. ALL TANKS DEAL SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE. Even fucking Leona is blowing up carries.

Shen: He is only dealing "too much damage" if he manage to get his sword throught you. If u manage to dodge and outsmart him, he is not dealing damage at all mostly. Ofc he can E-Q and get the buff, but that has a 18 second cooldown in lane.

By outsmarting him means not touching your farm at all because he has no mana to loose in trades, has passive shield that makes his trades easier, has magic % hp damage on lane where rushing MR is suicide if enemy bot gets ahead? Which it will because you are playing againist shen?

Poppy: She must stun you in a wall in order to get both procs of her Q in order to deal significant damage. This can be avoided by smart positioning.

Yes poppy is currently only balanced tank in the game.

Sion: Most of Sion damage is in his R and his W. His R can be avoided, pretty easly I would say in most cases, and you can either leave his W range, or you can destroy his shield before he can reactivate W. Don't want to talk about his current state as one of the best top laners. I personally play him with Grasp like a true tank.

Most of his damage comes from R and W. Year right. Looks like you never played vs sion yourself?

Maokai: He only outtrades you if you fight in bushes and you get hit by his E. Let's not talk about his passive maybe being a little too strong.

He outrades you because you are trading with him. Lets talk about his passive healing him periodically, and every spell cast decreases this period but several seconds. Even if you end up somehow dealing same damage as him, depsite him having Huge base damage on his knockback, untargetability and two different spells with % max hp magic damage (Just like shen), you will loose the trade the second his passive hits 0.

As of Ornn, he was really unbalanced after the buffs becouse he wasn't respecting this pattern. He could just outdamage everyone with W and basic attack whenever he wanted with almost no counterplay.

Just like any other tank.

The "tank way" of dealing damage for Ornn was if he managed to hit his E in his Q and deal the extra damage. I really hate that Riot decided to change that. I really suggets that Ornn W and passive damage should recive some nerfs if needed, but bring back the extra damage when hit terrain on E, so he can have Q for slow, W mainly for the shield, and E for his primarly CC and dmg ability.

Please keep this post tank friendly, i know how tanks can be opressive and boring lanes, but this post is just to help with ideas to balance Ornn.

Ornn is currently balanced. Thats why you find him unfunny to play him.

Ragnaveil3/16/2018, 4:46:04 AM3 votes

The issue with Ornn was he could get the full W damage off because he was unstoppable, not the damage. The E into Q or terrain damage combo was very inconsistant in certain situations. Not to mention they just nerfed his passive duration to 3 seconds, so if he doesn't immediately auto, it's likely to wear off before he gets another chance at it.

I Main Swain3/16/2018, 4:31:09 PM2 votes

i miss how tanks were several years ago, where they were ridiculously hard to kill but also very bad at securing kills themselves because of low damage (or at least damage that was very spread out) but were also dangerous to completely ignore

LordGeovanni3/16/2018, 11:20:46 PM2 votes

Ornn Was broken because they changed his w from Current hp damage to Max. Ornn's problem was that when he won lane early he would still lose after first back because his skills all scale with different things. His buff Only changed him from losing lane to cant lose lane because riot balances % damage poorly. What they should have done was allow his Q E and ult all to scale off of both ad and/ or ap allowing him some way to stay in power if he wins lane and some way to come back if he loses lane with his current hp damage model.

ampheon3/17/2018, 5:10:57 AM1 votes

Wouldn't it be best if a tank's damage was split decision based on how much CC/lockdown they have?

For example, A Galio has an AoE taunt, AoE knockup, and a knockup, and opposed to a Malphite Who's only hard CC is his ult. Looking at these two cases it'd be understandable if Malphite had a bit more damage than Galio, due the vast difference in Hard CC.

Oh they could do it Amumu stuff and have the presence of tanks (mostly vanguards) have a noticeable effect when in the enemy team (like Amumu).

Of course, with too much CC a tank becomes 'too' good at their job and becomes constantly picked in LCS which makes it boring to other players, which results in my tank from being unkillable and do to no damage, to moderately killable and more damage. I want my post rework Galio back.