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Infinity Edge Re-Rework

Draconian565·12/2/2018, 12:28:06 AM·7 votes·7,765 views

You know it's a problem when hashinshin notices that ADCs are weak. So I figured let's talk about some the problems and possible resolution.

Problems with old IE:

  1. 2 Item Power spike of IE and a Crit Item should not lead to 4-5 shotting every squishy bruiser/mage/assassin, especially with the increased range from RFC + overall AA range advantage (looking at you Caitlyn).
  2. Became a farm race + priority to camp bot over other lanes - If it's a crit ADC versus a crit ADC, game is basically dependent on whoever gets IE + Crit Item first, which becomes a problem for mid/top/jungle as well. No other lanes get such a huge power spike from 2 items, especially with the range advantage.

Problems with new IE:

  1. It does not increase the damage of ADCs against non-tanks or people who don't have a shit ton of Armor.
  2. It used to be the core item ADCs used to rely on scaling into end-of-mid-to-beginning-of-late-game - many of them don't have late game scaling functions without IE (rest in peace Tristana). There's very little reason to pick an ADC over a mage now since mages also have the ranged advantage and AAs don't do as much.

General Macro:

  1. Mages can take down towers better than ADCs, ever since the AP to turret damage conversion kicked in (Diana can 4-5 shot an inhib tower) - mages should not be allowed to do this, but we'll leave that for another debate. No, but seriously, this is unhealthy as well.
  2. Games end too fast so ADCs rarely get to that 4-5 item state, which they currently need due to lack of IE.

Resolution:

  1. Revert IE, but make IE's crit damage scale with level, 6-60% from Lv1-18 (or 0-54% from Lv1-18).
  2. Revert IE, but make IE's crit damage scale with the amount of crit rate the ADC has (0-100% crit rate = 0-50% crit damage)

Rationale: This prevents them from getting that 2 item power spike, but still gives them the scaling factor, which is what they seriously need.

Let me know what you think. Or just call me a braindead monkey. That works too.

20 Comments

Votable Jester12/2/2018, 5:02:11 AM3 votes
  1. Mages can take down towers better than ADCs, ever since the AP to turret damage conversion kicked in (Diana can 4-5 shot an inhib tower) - mages should not be allowed to do this, but we'll leave that for another debate. No, but seriously, this is unhealthy as well.

That's only the item 3100 mages and mages with similar effects in their kit, and even then that's more in the late game. Still not that much faster than an adc would take it.

Also did that actually have anything to do with the rest of your post? Don't see that issue reflected at all in your IE change. Or are you saying that objective taking isn't solely the ADC's job anymore? ADCs are still the best at taking down Baron and Dragon at least.

Caenen12/2/2018, 1:16:39 AM2 votes
  • Games end too fast so ADCs rarely get to that 4-5 item state, which they currently need due to lack of IE.
  • Revert IE, but make IE's crit damage scale with [...]
  • Rationale: This prevents them from getting that 2 item power spike, but still gives them the scaling factor, which is what they seriously need.

So you're saying ADCs can't scale well right now, so revert their (now) tank killing item, giving it extra slaing potential, but making sure it isn't strong early this time? I think this is a little flawed. If I were to argument, I think my solution would include crit item difersification instead. On AD Sion, the crit package does work in its current form when it comes to dealing with things ad sion usually cant deal with: armored bruisers, juggernauts and tanks. Crit works in this way, and it has its healthy up and downsides in this patch. However ADCs dont have the option to go 'classic full lethality', unlike AD Sion. They only have that one build path for crit. They need something they can opt into (as in, option) that can make them have a stronger laning phase or early, but at a price, e.g. a telegraphedly weaker late game.

Shahamut12/2/2018, 1:56:24 AM2 votes

Personally, I think Crit could just straight up use a rework. RNG can decide games regardless of skill. I mean, we removed DODGE chance because it "felt bad" or whatever...

We still have "dodge" in the game, but it is well communicated and windowed, not random. (Jax E, Shen W, etc.)

I personally think that "Crit adc" should be a thing, and not all adcs should be that. Ashe has a unique crit mechanic that could be tweaked. Fiora has a crit on a cooldown. Jhin has a crit every 4th shot. Caitlyn has a "headshot" mechanic which is effectively, a crit.

Why not rework crit to just be part of certain champions kits and use it as an identifying feature? Less RNG is better for the game. Leave the RNG to dragons and such XD

Paroe12/2/2018, 5:13:26 AM2 votes

... Actually, when you do the math the damage of the current IE is similar to old IE, with it being more effective on tanks than the previous version.

It just lacks the "OMGWTF" burst damage That being said, in its current form, we NEED some crit from elsewhere.

Personally, im a big fan of increasing (without changing the price of) item 1042 to 15%, removing item 1051 from the game, and replacing it with item 1036 in the zeal recipe, so you get item 3086 with 15% ASP, 15AD, and 5% MS.

Then you give us a 10-25 crit shard. Then you remove legend: Tenacity in favor of crit chance under the same gated mechanics.

This way crit is a scaling stat and aside from IE being mandatory on crit champions no longer intrinsically a marksman stat, becoming a standalone itemization for "ADCs" in the broad sense. Would also enable ANY fighter to become an ADC by utilizing crit, not just marksmen, because flat crit would be independent of itemization.

With these changes, we could look at slowly buffing IE's passive until it feels good.

Daddy Ants12/2/2018, 11:49:24 AM2 votes

4-5 shotting someone is acceptable.

1-2 shotting is not.

Hammermancer12/2/2018, 6:47:54 AM1 votes

I vote for 2 BUT i don't want it to offer crit

Like, you'd build it with 100% worth of crit (Maybe tweak zeal items to give 34%?)

ez mental boom12/2/2018, 6:50:18 AM1 votes

If IE ever gets buffs, Yas has to be watched closely

The buff to his passive damage put him at a worrying 49-51% winrate

Skillful champions should not be there

La Bello12/2/2018, 9:36:39 AM1 votes

I mean one of the biggest problems with crit was that it was BY FAR the HARDEST scaling thing in the game pretty much and made Crit users necessary for every comp in order to not get outscaled at teamfights.

Crit being good directly leads to less pick diversity so for that reason alone the crit damage should never make a return imo.

ADC Yuumi12/2/2018, 12:34:09 AM1 votes

I think it should 'nerf itself' if you have low crit.

For example, it'll do 20% more damage with crits at 100% crit chance. ( Crits do 220% damage. ) But with 50% crit chance, crits do 80% more damage. ( Crits do 280% damage. )

Obviously I need to tweak the numbers a bit but you get the point.

This would also be an indirect nerf to Yasuo and buff to Pantheon and Fiora.