Adding counterplay to Thresh to make him stronger

Catfish017·Sep 26, 2014·3 votes·1,191 views

So, Thresh has been getting nerfed over and over due to his strengths. One major issue is the fact that his lantern has such little counterplay (stun them! oh wait, the lantern lasts forever and they can still click on it). I think there is a chance to add counterplay to his lantern, which would allow some of his nerfs to be reverted and allow for more interesting and healthy gameplay. My idea is basically to slightly lower the speed of an ally being carried to thresh, and make it so that it's a dash mechanic, in that they can be knocked out of it via displacement abilities. This would allow well-timed abilities to prevent his lantern from being a 100% get-out-of-jail free card. With this counterplay, some nerfs could be reverted on him to make his laning a bit stronger again.

14 Comments

Lord Graves IIISep 26, 20142 votes

I feel like that would be nerfing his big unique thing to do what? Add damage?

You don't bring thresh for damage.

He got nerfed a bunch of times cause he needed it. He is still good. Which nerfs did you want to revert? Cause his lantern is fun as balls for the guy grabbing it.

Catfish017Sep 26, 20141 votes

Nerfing his big unique thing that has very little counterplay, you mean. There are also several nerfs you could revert on him. Yes, he was too good. But adding counterplay to his lantern would mean that he wouldnt be "too good" with the nerfs reverted. Not just damage, but the shield nerfs or range nerfs. He is still good, but maybe for the wrong reasons? Having low counterplay to a really powerful skill should never be a reason for a champ to be good.

Knight DevoutSep 26, 20141 votes

Players CAN be knocked away or stopped mid flight during Dark Passage.

I did it with Jayce (Knock Back from Thundering Blow) and Quinn (Interrupt from Vault).
While I'm not sure if they can also be snared, I'm inclined to think that is the case.

Catfish017Sep 26, 20141 votes

I don't believe either of these are actually the case.

Knight DevoutSep 26, 20141 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vngs55SXOK0 Also, I personally managed to knock enemies back midflight, it seems weird for it to be just a bugged animation,as if the enemy is alraedy moving on screen it means the "Dark Passage"has already started.

DestínumSep 26, 20141 votes

Thresh's problem his his lack of weaknesses, not counterplay. His lantern specifically is super easy to counter by just standing on top of it. Seriously, like 70% of all lanterns I try to take are impossible to click because enemies are bodyblocking it.

Catfish017Sep 26, 20141 votes

Ever since they buffed it this hasn't been an issue. It also moves enemies aside.

DestínumSep 26, 20141 votes

Not really. It's still way to small to make a real difference.

kanachoSep 26, 20141 votes

You can just put the lantern NOT on top of an enemy, and your teammate (who is getting lantered out) can use good reactions to hit the lantern before the enemy has any chance to do anything.

Old Man TeetoSep 26, 20141 votes

Thresh has a lot of counterplay.

Dodge the hook. Stand on the lantern. Walk through or don't the box.

You can interact with thresh extremely well.

The problem is that he has no weakness to capitalize on. This means he has to make a mistake for you to win.

Compared to other supports who see competitive play,

Nami - high mana costs, squishy, easy to all in. Braum - Easily poked, positional based, hard engage requires ultimate.

Thresh's kit has short CD trade potential (E passive) Hard engage potential (Q/E) Disengage (E/R) Burst (Q->E->R) Pick (Q) AoE CC (E/R)

while still offering a unique one of a kind strength.

"Lantern"

With no weaknesses, and nothing but strengths he's maintained his top tier support status since his introduction. We see great Thresh's and terrible Thresh, he's sort of "that" support just designed to be powerful so long as you hit your abilities.

Catfish017Sep 26, 20142 votes

Ehhh. I think Thresh has a ton of weaknesses to capitalize on to be honest. In order to be relevant, he needs souls. He needs to get close to the middle of minions to get souls. This places him in prime position to get poked and he has absolutely zero sustain to recover from it. The lantern would still offer a very unique strength, but my idea would allow counterplay to an ability that overwhelms the rest of his kit and will never allow him to see buffs of any kind.

DestínumSep 26, 20141 votes

Thresh does not need souls to be relevant. They're just an extra bonus for lategame if you manage to colect a lot of them.

Old Man TeetoSep 26, 20141 votes

Btw, you can displace someone being "lanterned" out.

Also knock up's stop the lantern move.

WinglingSep 26, 20141 votes

I think Thresh has good counterplay, but he just has too much free utility. Stun/pull, AOE knockback, lantern, ult slow. The way I've heard it said is that Thresh could have literally 0 damage and 0 shielding and he'd still be picked. Maybe we could keep all that utility but make it less free: what if he was forced to fly to a hooked target unless he lands flay on that same target? I'm not committed to this idea, if it's terrible for some reason that I didn't think of tell me, but at a glance I think it looks like a good trade-off to let Thresh keep everything but make it less free.