Sejuani update

El Boyó·5/14/2017, 10:14:40 AM·6 votes·1,214 views

This is going to be long, but I think the new Sejuani update is terrible and I'm going to explain why.

Let's start with her core toolkit, and I'll explain how her old toolkit worked before comparing it to the new one

(I am a mastery 7 Sejuani player and am personally appalled by this update)

Let's start with her Q. It's a charge that knocks up on hit and it's an excellent closer and escape tool, hasn't been changed

so her W. Her old W would smack down her mace on the first target hit and then continuously flail it in a circle around her, not flashy or complicated, but very very useful. It could hit multiple targets simultaneously, and delivered reliable continuous damage to the target.

Her E was a great combo for her W. You only needed one stack to set it off, and it would still work on champions that were far away from you, dealing a relatively small but nevertheless very useful amount of damage, and slowing your target. What this meant is if you Q W E combo'd on someone, you could lock them down pretty well with continuous CC.

her ult was amazing. It was great, and it wasn't even broken. It could be dodged or simply misfired, unlike ults like Karthus or Yasuo, so why was it nerfed? It used to freeze whoever it hit for a second or so, and it would also freeze anyone in the immediate vicinity of the target, making it possible to freeze the entire enemy team. IT WAS ALL ABOUT TIMING!!!

Her old passive was great, it rewarded you for intelligent positioning and for maintaining a presence in a fight, by giving you a flat 20 armor when you hit someone for 2 seconds, and resetting every time you hit them again. Which gave you great survivability in teamfights and the ability to turn on people who chased you away from them, rewarding tactical gameplay.

Sejuani was not complicated, but she was undeniably very strong and I consistently did very well with her, so now let me talk about the update and how much I think it's ten steps backwards.

Her new W. Can't hit anyone not standing in front of her, only hits twice, is not guaranteed to hit twice, is not an immediate cast unless you use quick cast, and doesn't deal continuous CC or damage. It might be flashier and have a higher skill cap, but it doesn't even have the same amount of basic utility.

Her new E. You need 4 stacks to even cast it, and though it's useful when it goes off, because it freezes the target as if they'd been ulted and gives you a tidy damage boost on your next hit, it's horribly counter intuitive to Sejuani's role as a tank. Also, since I no longer have the ability to deal constant radial damage, I'm easily bursted down by people who don't need to be afraid of stepping into my flailing W, because my W doesn't flail. So let's say I actually get 4 stacks despite missing 20 armor in fights and having to auto attack my way to the fourth stack (on the assumption nobody else is hitting the same champion since that applies stacks as well). I have not only to press E, but left click on the champ I want to apply it to. Her old E was instant cast and hit everyone affected by frost stacks. Sounds useful right? Well now I have to left click on someone with full stacks, and if more than one person has full stacks, too bad. Oh, also once the E is used on someone they're immune to stacks for 10 seconds, so I lose yet another CC. Making not only my survivability in teamfights horrendous but making my damage haphazard and inconsistent, and also a pain in the ass to actually apply.

Her ult, flat nerfed for no real reason. Now it only freezes the first target hit and then only slows everyone else, like Lissandra's ult and Nunu's ult had a baby. It no longer rewards you for timing your ult perfectly and smashing the whole enemy team mid teamfight, allowing your team to wail on them. Because when 4 out of 5 enemy's are merely slowed, they can still fight back. It doesn't make sense, and much like the arbitrary stack mechanic of the W and E, it just seems forced and like it's trying to artificially create a high skillcap for a champion that was about patience and clear headed thinking, and is now about... desperately trying to survive long enough to freeze one person.

But the passive, is so bad I've literally stopped playing League since experiencing it. And people are banning Sejuani now. She was actually very strong before this stupid rework, and has gone from least banned in the fricken game to one of the most banned in the blink of an eye, and she isn't even stronger!

so the old passive was great it rewarded you for playing aggressively and not running away, like a tank should play. Now every 10 to 15 seconds I get a massive boost to armor and MR. Like ridiculously massive. Sounds great right? Except it only lasts for one second after being activated and recovers from out of combat. So Sejuani went from being someone who could dive a team and hold them down while her team arrived to deal damage, to someone who might maybe if they're lucky get one dive in and have to escape because they can't pin anyone down because the combo takes like 5 seconds to get off and then can't be used on the same person more than once per teamfight, but that's actually okay because you'll nearly certainly be dead before you can get 4 stacks on someone in a teamfight. (unless you're not frontlining, so is Sejuani a tank or not???) 1 second after being hit by a champion I'm down my armor and MR. Basically this means anyone who read the passive knows they just need to auto attack me once before bursting me. Making the passive completely and utterly pointless. It isn't even useful for jungle clears, I'd much much much rather have flat 20 armor during a jungle clear than be immune to essentially, no literally, one hit. Sejuani has her new passive up and wants to engage for a team fight? Not if someone has a poke or the adc is paying attention and she gets shot once as she Q's to her own funeral.

This update is horrible, horrendous, awful. And while I know this will fall upon deaf ears, Sejuani desperately needs to better reflect the tanky powerhouse she was, instead of this haphazard gimmick she's become. At the very least for the love of all that is holy make her passive stay active for longer during a teamfight, or I don't know, bring back the passive that wasn't totally useless?

Thank you for reading all the way through if you did.

49 Comments

Hyper Stan5/14/2017, 11:30:04 AM4 votes

Il probably be downvoted to hell for saying this, but am i the only Sejuani main who actually enjoys the new E?

Old Sejuani was fun and all, but ive played sejuani since S2 where her W was even more of a uninteractive skill than it was in her prerework days, and i can honestly say her new W is alot more fun to use. What this rendition of Sejuani also has that none other really has is the ability to actually use her utility after ulting. old sejuani could slow, but when everyones huddled together that tended not to work, and when you were behind the damage from your W wasnt relevant. it was hell of alot of fun when you were ahead tough, which is something i miss.

But if you look at all tanks now, its very clear for the direction riots going for on tanks. let them do stuff after using their "amumu ultimate" Galio, sejuani, maokai and Zac now all have ways to join in the fight even after engaging. i find that alot more fun in alot of ways.

Tough on the other side, sejus new passive is far to strong. its alot clearer when its up which i like (aside from nerfing all her skins) but its really stupid at times. the icebreaker passive i can get why they did it, wanting tanks to only do unreliable damage and % health so they dont melt squishies. But i feel like some of her damage should still be in W as thats what old sejuani mains have always been used to.

Anyway i feel like people are overeacting a bit. ive had alot of fun with new Sejuani, and with old Sejuani. And il just say that i like her new E as it grants Sejuani a Unique identity which isnt "ranged amumu". im bracing myself for the downvotes

Ralanr5/14/2017, 6:21:02 PM3 votes

Her ult being so good was kinda the reason they weakened it.

Chembaron Yamada5/14/2017, 11:42:58 AM3 votes

Level 7 Sejuani myself and while it is true that Sejuani got some trouble now, because her numbers were/are overtuned and need further balancing, I disagree with alot of your points.

Let's get through her kit:

Passive: I absolutely prefer the new passive over the old one. Mostly because it actually feels like one now. You say that her old passive made her "tanky".... no, it didn't. These 20 armor were barely noticable, the only good thing about the old passive was her slow resistance. That's it. 20 bonus armor doesn't mean much, especially on a champion who is supposed to build tanky since armor gets less efficient if you have alot of it.

And to put some perspective in this: item 1029 this item gives 15 armor for the price of 300 gold. This should demonstrate how incredibly low that amount was.

Q: Didn't change much, so nothing to say here.

W: For me, this skill feels way more satisfying to use. Since I get the feeling that my kit is actually doing something, not just activate it and then having a passive damage aura around me. Increasing skill expression is a good thing for me, I want to be able to do stuff with my kit besides standing next to an enemy.

E: Let's be honest, the damage of Sejuanis old E was actually not existent. You just used it to catch an enemy who tries to flee. This skill is much less reliable, you are right about that, but giving tanks unreliable damage was actually the goal of the tank update. Besides, I like it thematically. It fits the fantasy I have about her, freezing enemies and shattering them into pieces. I kinda feel like Esdeath now on the battlefield.

R: Less powerful, but what did you expect. The old version was consuming all the power of her kit. Her passive and E were incredibly weak in the old kit and this was the reason for it. Yes, you can't freeze the entire team anymore right now, but sacrifices had to be made. And I played a fair amount of old Sejuani. If I am honest, pre 6 you were not even a champion. Your ganks were incredibly weak, you just Q'd and E'd them to keep them in place, hoping that you survive long enough for your laners to kill them. Then you reach level 6 and it feels like you are able to successfully gank now... but just if your ult is up.

The new Sejuani is able to gank pre 6 now, I can have an impact. And that is satisfying. And saying that the new passive is worthless in the jungle isn't true. If you kill raptors or krugs, you can kill the big one first and then your passive can charge up again. When it is up, the little ones basically don't deal any damage to you anymore. And you ignored that her passive lasts up to 3 seconds later.... 3 seconds of 100% bonus armor and mr + 100 flat is huge. It is much stronger than the old one.

Facit: Sejuani needs work to get in a balanced state. But I absolutely prefer her new kit over the old one.

Dauthau5/14/2017, 11:06:30 AM2 votes

I stopped playing her around mid-season 5 since she fell off hard after the nerf on turret damage. If I had played any norms since the patch I would vote. I've played a custom with her and the kit seems fairly strong and helps with her jungle clear due to Ice Breaker. The W is nice for wave-clearing since it lines up all the minions for the 2nd hit. I also like that she scales off of % max HP now for her W. The item rework helps her a lot. Those are what I like about her.

As for the cons of this new kit...I hate her ult, it doesn't feel near as rewarding for the patience you had to put into it! Riot is just mashing abilities together for champs now, just like you said about Liss/Nunu ult (hello xayah (mix of taliyah, camille, and talon)). Her stacking system is great in theory but shouldn't reset on other champs after getting to full stacks on multiple, you should be able to stack the whole team and freeze them all (or at least two). Her passive would be great but you're right about it falling off hard and fast. She isn't the tank I expected them to roll-out, unfortunately.

If they only adjusted her old kit damage to scale off of %max HP (since she was a TANK) instead of totally AP I think it could have been a faster and cheaper rework.

Yaskamasandwich5/14/2017, 11:12:31 PM1 votes

I was just hoping Riot would replace her old ult with something more akin to using Bristle. Like a charge or speed boost into the enemy team. Hecarim and Kled have two charge style moves and they get it because they're calvary as well.

That being said I do like her new W and a little bit of her new E since the new E kinda fits her theme of favouring strong melee champs. I just hate her new passive and numbers being too heavily relied on her passive and E. I don't feel like a tank anymore when playing Sejuani she seems too squishy when her passive is down. I feel punished for being on the front line, get poked, lose passive, then become as squishy as a marksman.

Old Sejuani was a beast for going to the enemy team and smacking them, though I think Riot wanted to get rid of that. She was always used as the example of "It's more unfair that Sejuani charges into the enemy team, crowd controls them, tanks them, kill the marksman, and survives." Riot kept hammering that down over, and over, and over, and over, did I mention over? And over again.

With that quote hammered down then all I can see Sejuani needs is to lose her aoe cc and mobility, ironically, and be turned into a juggernaut. That way she may finally become a champion designed around actually killing the marksman in a balanced way. Since you know, she's always was suppose to be the tank to destroy marksman. Maybe Tanks designed that way just can't work. Look at Rammus and Malphite, they're designed the same way and always get nerfed for doing their jobs too well.

Quil Evrything5/14/2017, 1:23:01 PM1 votes

if it wasnt working for people, she wouldnt get banned

Melledoneus5/14/2017, 3:45:04 PM1 votes

Sejuani's overall tankiness, damage, and absurd periods of CC are why she is banned.

You say she is weak, but I would disagree on that point. Riot turned her into a champion you did not want and just assume it's all fine and dandy.

El Boyó5/14/2017, 10:57:02 AM1 votes

Here are the fixes I can come up with.

  1. Revert the change, but I'm not insane I know that's not happening

  2. Reward Sejuani for being aggressive by allowing her to get her passive back up by dealing damage (or taking it)

  3. reincorporate the flail on her W so she can deal damage and CC in teamfights to everyone instead of just one person who is probably someone with enough escape to simply walk away from her anyway, (also she carries a flail around it made perfect sense that she would flail her flail).

  4. reduce the amount of stacks necessary to use the new E, or reduce the amount of time someone is immune to stacks after being hit with it

  5. get rid of the ability for teammates to build stacks for her, I get you're trying to make her more team friendly, but her massive CC was what made her excellent in teamfights, and now she's just some kind of weird auxiliary support thing that can only possibly exist as a second rate jungler. Replace that with an armor buff to her teammates, or better yet, give Sejuani more armor the more teammates are in her immediate vicinity

  6. un-nerf her ult. Please. Please please please please times infinity

  7. un-nerf the range on her E. If I can get 4 stacks on a zed who then zed's away from me, then what's the point? The same goes for any champion with a decent escape. Without her W being useful for more than an engage, it's pretty darn easy for people to just walk away from her now unless she ults. Sejuani did not used to have to ult to be able to fight someone, and that needs to come back.

  8. Again, just revert her back to her old self. If you guys wanted to get more people to play Sej, she was super awesome just the way she was, like she was one of my absolute favorite champs. Why not release a cinematic starring her or make her a new skin? (and updating some splash arts doesn't count).

Ýones5/14/2017, 7:04:28 PM

For me, the old Sejuani was the most boring champion I've played with. Her passive just gave her armor and her W was a Sunfire Cape briefly, and her E was just a magic damage and a slow. Only things that made her feel good were her Q and ult.

I haven't tried the new Sejuani but I bet she is more fun to play with than the old one.