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Pick vs Call Order

DJFariel·6/4/2015, 1:15:07 AM·3 votes·878 views

There is a couple year old post here that explains Riot's stance on pick order versus call order. I stand by this decision and support it. I recommend you read that post before you continue here.

This stance is not clearly communicated in the user interface, and, thus, not really enforceable in a fair manner. I have an idea that would assist in this.

Do we remember Dawngate? Do we remember the role system in Dawngate? In Dawngate, you were able to select a role from a list that gave you a certain in-game benefit and displayed an icon next to your name showing what role you were taking for everyone to see. We don't care about the first half of that, just the second.

In champion select, we create a system that is not bound by the pick/ban/select clock. This system allows the first player in pick order to select an icon that displays where they intend on going. Once the first player picks, the second player is allowed to select an icon, and further down until all players have selected their role. It would not be mandatory to select an icon. Selecting an icon would not have a time limit. There would be no repercussions for not selecting an icon (outside of the obvious that no one below you can select one). It is simply an avenue of communication to enforce pick order over call order. It would also assist new players in understanding where they can go and how the game works. Mousing over the icon would say:

  1. "Top lane"
  2. "Top lane support"
  3. "Middle lane"
  4. "Middle lane support"
  5. "Bottom Lane"
  6. "Bottom lane support"
  7. "Jungle" and easily communicate the location that the player intends to go.

Alternative ideas in summary and my summarized thoughts on them include:

  1. Allow players to pick their position in any order, instead of in pick order. This defeats the purpose of communicating that "pick order matters" but still increases the level of communication available.
  2. Require players to select their position icon before selecting a champion. This is a good idea, but making it mandatory before champion selection has the downside of players not picking their role until they pick their champion. This completely defeats the purpose of the system anyways, and only provides minimal communication for the players later in the pick. An alternative would be that you do a hybrid of this and the original, which would let you pick your icon after the player above you has picked their icon, not bound by the clock, but you can't select a champion until you have. Still a fine line.

I'm completely open to feedback on this idea. I'll be editing any ideas and my thoughts on them in to this post as they're discussed. Hopefully enough of you like it that we can see it in the future. :)

2 Comments

TiberiusAudley6/4/2015, 2:23:47 AM1 votes

If the issue you're trying to solve is

There are disputes between matched players over who get to play which role

Then your idea seems plausible. To me, though, the issue is more

Players are not getting to play the position they queued up wishing to play.

In a game where a large portion of doing well comes down to match-up knowledge and experience, being thrust into a position you do not wish to play can cripple your game experience; solving the latter issue instead cascade-solves the former. Players who wish to specialize in a single role may do so, and as a result may see a marked increase in their gameplay performance overall (due to not being forced off-role in games).

Team Builder's existence partially fixes the issue for normal games, but to me it seems outright unintuitive for a ranking system of a game to rate players based off how often they get to play the role they queue up wishing to play. It would partially solve a morale issue in lower rankings to allow players to pre-declare their role before queueing, and prevent in-game disputes over not getting what they wanted. The counter-issue, of course occurs at higher ranks where queue times get longer, and requiring pre-declared roles would serve only to increase queue times when player pools are smaller.

ElJanitorFrank6/4/2015, 6:24:31 AM1 votes

If feels too enforce-y.

I find pick order to be very reasonable, honestly. It's the way Riot does it, if someone doesn't follow it they're at fault, and they rarely go against it. I think this is slightly over-complicating it.

In Dawngate (rip in piece) they didn't choose lanes. They just picked roles that had bonuses attached to them. Everyone could have jungle bonuses, or support bonuses or the like.

This just feels unnecessary to me, and if puts pressure on the guys higher up in the pick order to actually pick something. When I'm 1-3rd pick, I like to fill sometimes. But if I fill, then it would cause some confusion to the guys below me as well. And if you simply added a fill option, maybe the last 2 roles left are ADC and jungle, and I don't want to play ADC. I'd be screwed because I had to pick fill, but didn't want to fill the particular role I got.