Can we have a real discussion on jungle itemization?

hashinshin·11/17/2015, 7:35:31 PM·3 votes·687 views

It has become simply obvious that any champion that can abuse the two scaling jungle items (Cinderhulk, Sated) has a SIGNIFICANTLY higher winrate in the jungle. Not merely 0.5% or 1% higher, but a several points higher winrate simply due to the fact there are no non-jungler items that can compare to Cinderhulk/Sated.

But lets look at some examples.

Jax, 53.5% jungle, 51.5% top lane. Mundo, 57% jungle, 55.5% top lane. Volibear, 53.5% jungle, 51% top lane. Aatrox, 50.8%, jungle, 49.8% top lane. (Which is incredibly hilarious when you remember just how powerful of a top laner Aatrox was at his height, same with Jax.)

Now that might not look like much to you, but ask what will happen when these champions reach a balanced state. Worse yet, look at what happens to those champion's scaling late game. But if, for example, Jax gets balanced on Sated and reaches a 50% win rate, that means his top lane winrate will be 48%. If Mundo gets balanced on Cinderhulk his top lane win rate will be 48.5%. Etc.

The problem is these items are cheaper, AND stronger than their alternatives in addition to giving the strongest summoner spell in the game, in ADDITION to having better scaling thean their alternatives. There is simply nothing you can buy outside of the jungle that will have the same impact as these jungle items, and their sheer power is effecting winrates in a large way. The game will have to start being balanced around these items which is terrible for game health.

They aren't even interesting items. Sated helps you... auto attack better. Cinderhulk gives you more HP. Tada. If they were interesting items or maybe encouraged a differing gameplay style it'd be neat, but they're just boring. Lichbane is interesting, Rageblade is interesting, even Frozen Heart is more interesting than these items. These items literally are "do exactly what you were doing, except now do it better than any other item."

Now worst yet is the fact that simple you basically gut attack speed itemization for fighters (Trinity, BotRK, even Wit's End for some bizarre reason) that Sated is basically the only true way to combo attack speed with rageblade right now. And since rageblade is the only other attack speed item, that means playing outside the jungle means you have 1 real attack speed item, and 15% off trinity if you're really that desperate. This means some champions like Xin simply can not play outside the jungle, even if they wanted to.

Basically: Jungle should not have stronger items just because. If the champions need to be buffed then buff them. If the champions need more niche items then add them to every allowable role. Don't lock the viable build path of a champion to a role, that's ridiculous. That'd be like tying the best mage item to exhaust, or tying the best ADC item to heal.

3 Comments

BluePolarizer11/17/2015, 7:37:11 PM1 votes

Cinderhulk has the lowest gold efficiency in the game. WTF are you talking about? The cinderhulk junglers that are doing good are doing good because they don't need as much gold and they get a ton of free stats since games end early.

The real question is: what do junglers like Wukong or Hecarim do when ALL their itemization sucks?

Espy Psyche11/17/2015, 9:53:21 PM1 votes

The only way to fix it is to rework Warrior to also have mutiplicative strength.

Devourer has a multiplier for auto attackers. Runeglaive has a multiplier for mages. Cinderhulk has a multiplier for tanks. So we need Warrior to have an assassin multiplier so that it's good on Wukong, Hecarim, Irelia, etc.

Maybe make Warrior have a passive that increases physical damage dealt by abilities by some percent?

Stonington11/20/2015, 6:36:42 AM1 votes

I totally agree. You bring up some valid points. I'm just not sure how it's feasible to balance these items for competitive and solo queue. If top lane had cinderhulk and devourer, that would be OP as shiatsu.