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If a champion is hard to play, he should be better

Halcyn··2 votes·996 views

I am absolutely sick and tired of seeing posts about YASUO, LEE SIN, ZED, RIVEN and a few others.

If they are hard to play, and I mean play at a plat + level, then they should be better. Sure, you're silver 2 and you had a great ranked game on Lee and that's good! But it doesn't mean he's easy, your competition just probably understands him less than you do. These champions, without a doubt, unarguably, are hard to play at max Potential. Are they hard to play against also? Yes, they're annoying to play against and it can be hard. However, nothing about them is actually unfair (Yes riven is fast, yes yas is resourcelsss, yes lee can ward hop) but is nessecary for them to be better or else why would you play a champion that takes months to master. Let me ask you a question.

Why would you play Yasuo over Annie if yas was worse? You wouldn't. But if you're good enough you'd pick Yas over Annie because his potential for outplay and team fight impact can be much greater. What's the drawback to him being better? He's hard to play.

That's why they're better, stop complaining about them. Either you're good enough to play them, good enough to outplay them, or you make do with someone simpler and easier

18 Comments

venomous frost4 votes

worst balancing ever

you are saying that if somebody can play the hardest to play champion in league correctly, he can not be countered by anybody because his kit will be stronger when played correctly.

Penns2 votes

Logically, if a character is really hard to play, he should be equally rewarding. Easy characters shouldnt be unplayable, but they shouldnt be as rewarding as a really well played hard to play one.

But since champs like WW just press 1 button to kill you with close to no counterplay or reaction time... Thats not true for League anyway lol.

Halcyn1 votes

No. Every champion has a counter, and these champions in particular have a ton. A silver renekton can beat a plat riven. A bronze malz can beat a gold Yasuo. Rek poops on Lee Sin. Zed has a boatload of counters. Every champion has hard match ups

originary911 votes

[{quoted}](name=venomous frost,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tbpR9Fi1,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-22T18:18:44.667+0000)

worst balancing ever

you are saying that if somebody can play the hardest to play champion in league correctly, he can not be countered by anybody because his kit will be stronger when played correctly.

He's not exactly wrong. If easy champs had the damage, kill and chase potential of harder champs then they'd be picked every game and become pick or ban. I.e, When WW was strong, other junglers were strong too, but he was so easy that there was no benefit to play other champions over him.

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

that's not what he said

even the most cancerous champions have counters, and if they dont, they're nerfed immediately

Himbeekee3 votes

Riven and Yasuo are hard to play? I must be playing the wrong game...

Cindikle1 votes

Yasou is known for being a hard champion to learn. If you think he's so easy, explain your 2-4 record with him.

You wont often find people saying he's easy. Just that he's BS.

Riven has a high learning curve for her higher mechanics. At her base she's easy. Anyone can preform on her. Not everyone can master those animation canceling, juke every skill shot and get the kill.

Surprised you listed those two but not Zed. Zed overall isn't difficult. His only real high skill factor is using his shadows to juke. Rest of his kit is like playing Garen with an energy bar. And even then you can see someone use his shadows well by luck.

Himbeekee1 votes

My 2-4 record with him was playing him free week, and playing him devourer jungle. Thanks for taking the time to look me up though.

If a champion who is literally granted 2+ safety skills (windwall, his E on <1 second cool down, rivens Q, and her dash) is considered hard to play, then idk what game I've been playing. At least Zed gets punished for using his W, as it has a respectable CD. You bait his ult out as well and he's nothing. Especially after laning phase.

Cindikle1 votes

F2P champions can't be played in ranked. What you're telling me is you tried new things in ranked before normal.

I said Riven was easy to learn but hard to master. Because to play her at the level she's "balanced" around requires animation canceling. Those dashes are also short. Comboing them gives you some good distance. But for quick juking, they're not as easy as they look.

Yasou is a hard champion to learn.

  • Q has a very narrow hit box(first two hits). Any lag can cause it to miss easily.
  • W has a long cooldown. It can be baited. And it doesn't outlast other champion normal ability outside of maybe Lissandra.
  • E has a short range and requires targets to use fully. Dashing around poorly will get you killed.
  • R is dumb and shouldn't have the cooldown it has. =\ Because it's so short, it's up before most other champions ults. Meaning he can kill you in lane repeatedly before you can attack back. Creates the same situation that Darius lost his full rank 1 reset for. Just because it has a requirement(not a rare one either like it used to use an excuse) doesn't make this OK.

His QWE all have powerful drawbacks you need to learn. But his kit as a whole is powerful as well. Mostly because of his passive. But his kit has enough drawbacks that he is not an easy champion to learn. I'd assume he's has the largest difference in win % from first 5 games to after 50 games.

But that doesn't mean he isn't a BS champion.

Halcyn1 votes

Not to be a sour guy or a rank flamer but you're silver 2. What are you gauging difficulty on because it sure shouldn't be personal experience.

Himbeekee1 votes

Ahh the good old "rank = skill" argument. Now it makes sense as to who runs the boards. Carry on.

Halcyn1 votes

First off, let me be clear. Rank doesn't equal skill. However, I'm talking about high level play in my original post and there is no high level play at your rank. That doesn't mean you're bad but how can you comment on how level play of hard champions if you've never experienced high level play of hard champions.

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

yasuo is actually hard to play tho

that doesnt give him a free pass when hes op but nonetheless he does have some difficulty

Sky of Smiles2 votes

Can't you just play a champion because of their lore/character?

The dilemma of whether a champion's kit defines their lore or if their lore defines their kit. Do you pick a champion because of their kit alone and then learn their lore later on or do you pick it because of their lore and invest into learning to master their kit because of it?

Halcyn1 votes

If you love Garens lore than you should play him till your head spins off. But that doesn't mean he isn't easy to play. If you love Rivens lore then you should wind slash all day. But lore is an afterthought to most people, champion kits win games

Quepha2 votes

They aren't really hard to play. They have hard MECHANICS but their abilities nullify skills that other champions need. Positioning and knowledge of the threat ranges of other champs, damage taken during a dive, all of that stuff is irrelevant to champs with the mobility to get in and out before any of that stuff matters.

LeBlanc needs to be able to quickly fire off a combo before anyone can react, and track which button did what so she knows how to jump where she wants. Lux needs to know the ranges of every champ so that she can stand in a position where she threatens with her range without being threatened.

Neither is inherently more difficult although they are inherently different.

HolyCrapItsMe1 votes

Definitely not, being hard to play should not make a champion better. you just play like 20 games, get wrecked and then you have a free-win ticket for every game for the rest of your life? a champ being hard to play should give you the personal feeling that you achieved mastery with a hard to play champion, not the ability to completely demolish everyone else no matter the circumstances. You choose to play a hard champion, so you cant complain that you dont deal enough damage with him, you DO NOT choose to fight against a hard champion, so why should you be punished for it? for example, if I play yasuo and I cant hit a single Q, I cant say "why is yasuo so weak" since Im the one who picked him, and im the one who fails with him. if I queue up and face a player who is playing a hard to play champion but KNOWS how to play with it, I have absolutely no chance at beating him, just because hes playing a champion who is a bit hard to master?

You say "make do with someone simpler and easier". but if I pick annie and queue up against a good yasuo, ill lose every game just because I chose an easy champion, which isnt balanced. its not making do. its either "get good and play the powerful champion" or "eat shit and die motherfucker". I dont choose to play against yasuo even when hes way more powerful than I am.

Cindikle1 votes

I came here expecting you to be in silver/bronze.

How did you get to diamond with this mentality.

At some point this game becomes less on champion mastery and more on game mastery. When what to do, what to build and when to do it.

An ADC diamond Karthus would likely win over a silver Varus. Because of their game knowledge.

This does change for pro's. Where every little advantage is needed to win. But for the rest of us. Being good at a champion but poor at the game is the cause of "win lane, lose game".

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