Is it fair that if someone AFKs, everybody that is on the Losing team loses LP?

LeBrõnze James·Nov 3, 2019·88 votes·18,685 views

Previously, I made a similar post to this one. Nobody understood, so I'm making this clearer.

The current system works this way. Winners get their LP if the game lasts more than 4 minutes (Remake Window). Losers still lose their LP whether or not there is an AFK on their team.

Now my idea is to simply make it so That in the event of an AFK, the losing team only loses a 3 LP and doesn't lose any MMR (Like a dodge). Only the AFKer loses more LP and MMR. The winning team gets the same amount for winning. (Which happens currently)

Now somebody said that this is abusable, they can simply duo with someone and afk purposefully. I said no. Riot can put a system in place where if someone duos with someone who afk'd....they BOTH lose the same amount of LP.

Does this sound like a system you want?

84 Comments

Inkling CommandoNov 3, 201936 votes

is it fair? no. does riot care? also no. in a way a player that leaves gets the best outcome in the deal. they screw their team out of rewards and have no incentive to return since they themselves won't get a reward. so they have nothing to lose.

YaraUwUNov 4, 20196 votes

Literally gonna say the same exact thing. Riot has proven time and time again they don't give a shit about the leaver system.

ThisName1sDumbNov 3, 201924 votes

It's not fair, no. It's also not fair when the rest of your team loses to their opponents by no fault of your own, or someone on your team ints, or when you have internet issues midway through a game and lose because of it. There are a lot of things that are unfair about League, but on the bright side, this affects everyone. Assuming you yourself are not an AFKer, it's more likely that the AFK will be on the enemy team, given that any 5 of them could be an AFK, but on your team only 4 people could possibly be an AFK.

There are a few issues with a system like this. One is that it incentivizes people to flame their team mates to the point of quitting in a losing game. Another is that it will result in a net gain in LP for everyone, causing a synthetic rise in the bracket.

BackdoorPrincessNov 4, 20193 votes

{quoted}

It's not fair, no. It's also not fair when the rest of your team loses to their opponents by no fault of your own, or someone on your team ints, or when you have internet issues midway through a game and lose because of it. There are a lot of things that are unfair about League, but on the bright side, this affects everyone. Assuming you yourself are not an AFKer, it's more likely that the AFK will be on the enemy team, given that any 5 of them could be an AFK, but on your team only 4 people could possibly be an AFK.

There are a few issues with a system like this. One is that it incentivizes people to flame their team mates to the point of quitting in a losing game. Another is that it will result in a net gain in LP for everyone, causing a synthetic rise in the bracket.

But flaming has harsher penalties than afk'ing anyways

Charmy BirdNov 4, 20192 votes

{quoted}

It's not fair, no. It's also not fair when the rest of your team loses to their opponents by no fault of your own, or someone on your team ints, or when you have internet issues midway through a game and lose because of it. There are a lot of things that are unfair about League, but on the bright side, this affects everyone. Assuming you yourself are not an AFKer, it's more likely that the AFK will be on the enemy team, given that any 5 of them could be an AFK, but on your team only 4 people could possibly be an AFK.

There are a few issues with a system like this. One is that it incentivizes people to flame their team mates to the point of quitting in a losing game. Another is that it will result in a net gain in LP for everyone, causing a synthetic rise in the bracket.

The whole thing about flaming people until quitting is just a dumb excuse imo. This is already happening and people don't really respond to it, league players have such a high ego they'll never leave a game which means helping yoru teammate.

citlalli5755Nov 3, 201912 votes

I think afkers should lose triple the amount of LP. that way they have to work harder for them to climb up. well what I really think is that afkers should be perm ban from playing rank.

BigFBearNov 3, 201915 votes

This is bullshit. You never know why he afk. Maybe he has connection issues or something else.

citlalli5755Nov 4, 20197 votes

I mean I had bad connection once or twice im not banned. im talking about repeated offenders. obviously shit happens, like if there's a storm and the power goes out. but saying "gg" and afking isn't a connection issue.

Bluegame1Nov 4, 20195 votes

I mean if you playin with bad internet you shouldnt be playing ranked. I think it's fair to lose double lp if you leave the game regardless of the situation. Sure I'll lose out when my power goes out or something like that, but I'm fine with that if the afkers get double punished.

SaezioNov 4, 20194 votes

if they got connection issues maybe they shouldn't be allowed to play rank

neropaNov 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I think afkers should lose triple the amount of LP. that way they have to work harder for them to climb up. well what I really think is that afkers should be perm ban from playing rank.

Yeah, but the problem is that then people who happen to have a bad internet connection would get really mad.

Light of MadnessNov 4, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, but the problem is that then people who happen to have a bad internet connection would get really mad.

If your internet is bad you shouldn't be playing an online game. Is basic.

SaezioNov 4, 20191 votes

well, it's ok to play an online game... a team pvp online ranked game though...

neropaNov 6, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Light of Madness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tLLVFIYF,comment-id=000200020000,timestamp=2019-11-04T20:24:16.761+0000)

If your internet is bad you shouldn't be playing an online game. Is basic.

What about random lag spikes? I might have worded my comment wrong as I agree with you that people with overall bad internet shouldn't play online games, but people who have most of the time a good/acceptable connection. Then one game they just happen to have a bad connection ofr the match. Or what about people who happen to have some other problem with their computer. As those problems can be unpredictable aswell.

I should add to this that punishing the other player on the duo would be unfair in my opinion as if the other memeber of the duo HAS to go (He will get punished and deserves it), but the other person can play normally. Why should then the other person get punished.

Overall i don't think we can improve the system. Maybe we could decreas the lp loss, but not take it away completely. So 20 lp loss would be 10 lp loss. While increasing the afkers lp loss from 20 to 30. I belive something like this could be working.

Buckeye2002Nov 6, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I think afkers should lose triple the amount of LP. that way they have to work harder for them to climb up. well what I really think is that afkers should be perm ban from playing rank.

Actually this is a good idea. I doesn't change the game for no afkers, but hammers the afker…...which is what we want, BRAVO! I don't agree with the perma ban, but this will make sure you check your internet and stop playing on laptops.....

8 Lamar JacksonNov 3, 20198 votes

This can be super abused sadly.

8 Lamar JacksonNov 3, 201910 votes

Take that back, i missed the later part about the duo thing. Ok I like it.

WimbledofyNov 4, 20195 votes

Can be "abused" by harassing your teamates to try to make them quit. Unlikely to work most of the time but some people might do it.

DracosKasuNov 4, 20192 votes

Or by skin or rp trading. Just by the fact there is stuff like time saver which is a form of cheat exist proof that people will be also willing to do it.

Master GrieferNov 4, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name= LeBrõnze James,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tLLVFIYF,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-03T21:14:03.140+0000)

Previously, I made a similar post to this one. Nobody understood, so I'm making this clearer.

The current system works this way. Winners get their LP if the game lasts more than 4 minutes (Remake Window). Losers still lose their LP whether or not there is an AFK on their team.

Now my idea is to simply make it so That in the event of an AFK, the losing team only loses a 3 LP and doesn't lose any MMR (Like a dodge). Only the AFKer loses more LP and MMR. The winning team gets the same amount for winning. (Which happens currently)

Now somebody said that this is abusable, they can simply duo with someone and afk purposefully. I said no. Riot can put a system in place where if someone duos with someone who afk'd....they BOTH lose the same amount of LP.

Does this sound like a system you want?

Riot doesn't care.

KFCeytronNov 4, 20195 votes

There are many things that aren't fair, and this is one of them. Unfortunately, there can never be a system that encourages AFKing in any way, because that's a behavior we don't want.

CyceraNov 4, 20194 votes

I think it's fair. And yes, I am considering situations in which I had to leave the game because my internet went out or something uncontrollable happened.

Titanium70Nov 4, 20194 votes

That sounds like: A) A perfect way to create heavy LP inflation.

B) A spring of toxicity towards players to make them AFK and save your "well deserved" LP.

King LividNov 4, 20193 votes

My idea would be to have the lp lost decrease based on how long the player was afk. Let's say the guy afks just after remake/buys items, and the game ends at 15mins. Because the player was afk for a large percentage of the game, the remaining teammates don't lose as much lp. The afk player loses normal amount. They shouldn't be punished more then usual, life gets in the way sometimes.

If a player afks 1-2mins before a loss, the lp lost by the remaining players is close what it would normally be. This would prevent last minute DC's being used to mitigate lp losses.

Maybe still abusable idk

rawiazam1Nov 4, 20191 votes

-> game ends -> "a summoner has disconnceted" -> "watafak, i just won. why did i lose lp"

######is a joke

JanakinNov 4, 20193 votes

Just remove duo from soloQ, easier.

PigalishusNov 3, 20192 votes

I mean it is a hard thing to tackle because like someone else has mentioned there are so many other things that could happen during a game. Sometimes they are not something we can control as people such as a family emergency, Internet troubles, Or even the much needed bathroom break when it strikes. And all of these could be countered against said player. But then again it could be something simple as someone just getting tired and angry at the game and choosing to simply just stand up and go grab a drink or food. So what i guess i am trying to say is it is hard on riots end to really narrow all of these things down to be able to punish someone who is afk.

For instance lets say for some strange reason your i dont know mother has a stroke and you have to help her and drop everything you are doing. Then no you should not have to be punished for that but then again how can anyone know what truly happened and now everyone on the team is getting less of a punishment and that person is getting a greater punishment for something that is totally out of their control.

I feel like if you physically close your client or hit the exit button then sure get the punishment because you are the one physically responsible for leaving the game. But then again that can easily be abused in some way shape or form. So i agree that people should be punished for the random afk but not being so harshly punished for something that is 100% out of their control.

Trist mid opopNov 4, 20192 votes

”Hey mid, its your fault we are losing. Please go afk so we dont lose lp for ur mess”

OneMustFallNov 4, 20191 votes

I mean a lot of times, it's preferable that a player goes AFK. I played a game last night where I had a WW who AFKed at about the five minute mark and told me to bring him a cheesecake to the party tomorrow. It was pretty obvious he was a troll but we still dominated as a team and won the 4v5 easily. Had he stayed in the game he might have fed the other team and made it much more difficult to win. I think the system is just fine.

When you step onto the Rift in League of Legends, you win or you lose. There's no excuses.

TokishiNov 4, 20194 votes

{quoted}

I mean a lot of times, it's preferable that a player goes AFK. I played a game last night where I had a WW who AFKed at about the five minute mark and told me to bring him a cheesecake to the party tomorrow. It was pretty obvious he was a troll but we still dominated as a team and won the 4v5 easily. Had he stayed in the game he might have fed the other team and made it much more difficult to win. I think the system is just fine.

When you step onto the Rift in League of Legends, you win or you lose. There's no excuses.

When you get to low Diamond to upper Gold, the only way you're winning a 4v5 is they have a troll, they have an afk, or your comp was built for it. Someone running it down or going afk is a 100% valid excuse to say why you lost, especially if it was your jungler.

TokishiNov 4, 20191 votes

Riot has done a few things over the years that pretty much ended up being dead end concepts that could have easily solved the massive spike in griefing and afks this past season or two. First off, the mastery system. The grading system could easily be done to adjust LP gains and losses on both sides with an S being like 15% increase and C or D being extra LP lost whether through a win or loss. That way players were being dead weight don't get the full value of the win and leech and are forced to climb while players who consistently show that they are doing well despite people tanking could climb easier. Another system could be the honor system which ended up failing for the most part. That easily could have acted as a way to get people removed the Ranked pool easier as say, Honor 5 reports someone for rage quit, that person will be flagged faster as they were reported from such a high Honor level. But both of those systems I believe ended up failing for the most part and Riot just put them on the back burner as no one really noticed so far.

SMURFF NAME HERENov 5, 20191 votes

This is such a terrible idea. No automatic system can properly judge game impact and avoid all the problems with "grade farming". Not to mention you'd still need the exact same amount of LP won and lost in total, if the entire team gets A and S you can't give them all extra winnings.

For example if you only played carries, played for KDA and totally gave up on games when shit went south(preserving your KDA by being extremely passive) you might lose some "winnable" games and end up with a 52% winrate and you'd still climb faster than someone who plays more utility champions like tanks, stays in games even if it means getting killed in hopeless teamfights and once in a while his perserverence wins him an extra game for a total 54% winrate. Or if you know that if you're the only one with an S grade while the rest of your team gets B+s you'll get way more LP than if you're all S and A then you might start baiting them into deaths when you're certain you can win anyway and trying to farm solokills instead of going for objectives to actually win.

Or if you're playing a "float" style splitpusher who draws pressure then escapes your stats might not look great. If you execute it well your deaths will be low but so will your damage to objectives and kill participation as unless the enemy team completely ignores you you'll just lead them on a wild goose chase so your team gets shit done cross-map which won't be reflected in your stats. High cs will definitely help your score but you can't tell the difference between an afk farmer who draws zero pressure and still doesn't take objective(instead just recalling when they get a wave to tower) and a succesful float splitpusher who is constantly drawing pressure and running away.

It's just far too exploitable.

TokishiNov 5, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=SMURFF NAME HERE,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tLLVFIYF,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2019-11-05T05:20:32.611+0000)

This is such a terrible idea. No automatic system can properly judge game impact and avoid all the problems with "grade farming". Not to mention you'd still need the exact same amount of LP won and lost in total, if the entire team gets A and S you can't give them all extra winnings.

For example if you only played carries, played for KDA and totally gave up on games when shit went south(preserving your KDA by being extremely passive) you might lose some "winnable" games and end up with a 52% winrate and you'd still climb faster than someone who plays more utility champions like tanks, stays in games even if it means getting killed in hopeless teamfights and once in a while his perserverence wins him an extra game for a total 54% winrate. Or if you know that if you're the only one with an S grade while the rest of your team gets B+s you'll get way more LP than if you're all S and A then you might start baiting them into deaths when you're certain you can win anyway and trying to farm solokills instead of going for objectives to actually win.

Or if you're playing a "float" style splitpusher who draws pressure then escapes your stats might not look great. If you execute it well your deaths will be low but so will your damage to objectives and kill participation as unless the enemy team completely ignores you you'll just lead them on a wild goose chase so your team gets shit done cross-map which won't be reflected in your stats. High cs will definitely help your score but you can't tell the difference between an afk farmer who draws zero pressure and still doesn't take objective(instead just recalling when they get a wave to tower) and a succesful float splitpusher who is constantly drawing pressure and running away.

It's just far too exploitable.

you get far more score from assists, vision score, and csing than most people realize

HapmastNov 4, 20191 votes

This is hard because you need to know the reason for someone to go AFK, is he just purposely throwing or has someone made his game miserable. By verbally abusing him and taking all his farm. If this happens and the guy leaves cause he is upset then why does the Bully get away with losing 0 or less LP?

So i struggle to like this system but perhaps when a player in the game is reported and the verdict is deemed that a player was purposely tilting the team or afking on purpose. And in that match the team lost then i think the players that cause no offence should receive either all or some LP back that they lost. And if the player happens to be in promo during the verdict then he receives Blue Essence.

Light of MadnessNov 4, 20191 votes

Nah no need to punish both in a duo.

Just double the LP loss for the AFK and if do twice in 24h give a 24h ban from rankeds.

Solved, no more afks. The rest I liked 3 lp loss, no mmr loss is good.

MrEndsNov 4, 20191 votes

ive played against a team in ranked and a person on there team was afk the whole game it was a 4v5 in our favor and we still lost the game ._.

SałemNov 4, 20191 votes

There is a problem how will the system detect the person as AFK? what do you define as afk?

Let's SEE THIS FROM ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE:

If the person is not connected he is not active = AFK --> this is ok as AFK

If the person is logged in-game and stoped to play and quits = AFK

**HERE IS THE PROBLEM **:

You can have people that are in-game and in the base spawn and move periodically but not outside the base they are not counted as AFK what means that people can make other hostages and make them lose LP as themself.

That is a huge problem and you probably will encounter people doing that

it's hard to make a program that will detect true AFK

I'm still with you and agree that they need to look at the LP lose if you have legit AFK person even if he is periodically moving and faking he is active in-game hile not doing nothing productive for the team

Have my upvote.

TeémòNov 4, 20191 votes

If people refuse to surrender, but your the carry and their like 0/15 no he just doesn't want to waste time when he knows he can get the lp back the next game. He shouldn't feel forced to carry you. If it's the opposite where he runs it down 0/10 and says your on your own then yea I can understand.

inwhomaneNov 4, 20191 votes

whats the point riot wont ever fix their shitty reporting system. theyll litterally just ignore this post regardless of how many likes it gets. because they dont care.

rawiazam1Nov 4, 20191 votes

i like how i made the EXACT SAME POST a year ago and god alot of slack for it.

hypocrites and sheeps gonna hyprocrite and sheep

SaezioNov 4, 20191 votes

You can't have one team winning normal LP and the other losing less LP.

You either make the AFKER lose the entirety of the LP the winning team won (minus the 12 that his team lost) or you create LP out of nothing which fucks up the entire balance behind the ladder

TerchioNov 4, 20191 votes

So... you lose ranking in the fake ranking system (LP), but lose no ranking in the real ranking system (MMR). What's the point? The two should be following each other regardless, but even pretending it's fair for one and not the other is ridiculous. The fact there are two systems is bogus in the first place. You shouldn't ever be publicly ranked better or worse than you are matched up as. That's just dumb in the first place.

However, aside from that, leavers aren't supposed to be something to feel better about. I'm not supposed to have a goal of making other teammates' lives unbearable to the point that I may force one to leave and alleviate my loss burden some, just be sure not to cross the toxic line. I'm also not supposed to be boosting the records of early-game champions, who likely get more players to ragequit against them than enemies get your allies to ragequit, and thus have a higher favorable 10 LP vs -3 LP tradeoff. That's not supposed to be considered in this game. Your goal is to win the game more than you lose, and since 100% attendance is not an attainable goal, ever, you need to simply live with a vanilla form of endgame distribution. Other forms of distribution are able to be abused, and result in other negative game impacts, including increased leaver amounts.

Just do what you can to make sure you aren't encouraging leavers, and you'll get plenty of leavers on the other team to offset the ones you get.

BoppasNov 5, 20191 votes

One thing Riot needs to fix is when someone joins game buys item then leaves I dont care if its bad connection or not you should have made sure you were not going to "lag out" when game starts you literally make it to where we lose lp because you were stupid enough to join buy item then leave

T2K BakaNov 5, 20191 votes

I remember playing a game where 3 ppl afk'd at 3 min in, but vayne came back 27 min in. I won the game lmao.

Worst JG WinsNov 5, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name= LeBrõnze James,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tLLVFIYF,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-03T21:14:03.140+0000)

Now my idea is to simply make it so That in the event of an AFK, the losing team only loses a 3 LP and doesn't lose any MMR (Like a dodge). Only the AFKer loses more LP and MMR.

Elo aka your MMR in league is Zero Sum. Your suggestion isn't possible.

SMURFF NAME HERENov 5, 20191 votes

This can't be done because of extreme MMR inflation. The only way a system like this would ever work is if the MMR loss was still the same for the winning team and losing team BUT the MMR loss was placed on the single leaver or split amongst multiple leavers instead of being evenly spread across the entire losing team, leaver or no.

Now this would mean that if you disconnect from a game for whatever reason you effectively just lost 5 games. This is extremely harsh punishment but it's the only way to implement such a system without inflation.

ZaFishboneNov 5, 20191 votes

If they were to implement the system you want, people on a loosing team would start flaming one of their members like crazy to afk in order to lessen their LP loss. Anyone who believes otherwise clearly hasn't been on the internet long enough to know how people will always use any way they can to game a system.

MrGerundNov 5, 20191 votes

their needs to be put down a wall of atleast gone for X minutes and hasnt been back more than Y minutes, but also the state of the game.. is base falling, is their base falling? etc.

this needs a very complex algorythm but it could potentially be done. will riot do it?

ye erm... WE HAVE NO POWER HERE.

SmyrageNov 5, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name= LeBrõnze James,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tLLVFIYF,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-03T21:14:03.140+0000) Now somebody said that this is abusable, they can simply duo with someone and afk purposefully. I said no. Riot can put a system in place where if someone duos with someone who afk'd....they BOTH lose the same amount of LP.

Here's an example, why this would backfire hard: a team of 5 players decide to play Ranked Flex. They are winning the game, but suddenly one of them gets disconnected (not on purpose). He is hit with the leaver thing, but apparently it's going to hit everyone. Team wins the match regardless, but everyone loses the same amount of LP, so in the end nobody won anything.

The issue here is that the system won't be able to distinguish if one member of the premade did it on purpose and punishing others for the transgression of one is less fair than playing a 4v5.

It isn't fair, it occurs sometimes, but due to the abusible nature of this whole thing, I'd say it is better to stay this way. It isn't that rampant anyway, more accurately it is relatively uncommon. It's one of the toughest pills to swallow in Online games. Ranked suspensions would be a better solution.

SylphicNov 6, 20191 votes

What riot should do is reduce the lp loss in games with afks by a percentage of the game the afker was gone. (18 lp loss, afk at 10 min in 30 min game = afk for 66% of the game. 18*(1-0.66) = 6 lp loss.) The afker would still get the full 18 lp loss.

Premades would reduce the lp loss reduction percentage by the number of people in their party (same example as above but with a duo that one of them afks: 18*((0.66 reduction) / (2 players in party)) = 18 x 0.33 reduction =18*(1-0.33)= 12 lp loss for the non afk duo.)