if you're gonna complain

Takeuchi 17·3/27/2015, 6:12:42 PM·106 votes·4,450 views

about a champion, do us all a favor and buy and play them first for a while before you do. you'll realize 90% of the time they are not OP or stupid strong, just that you simply dont know their weaknesses well enough or that may be the person playing them is better than you. this game requires that you not only know your champions strengths and weaknesses but also your enemy's.

imo, you have no right to complain and suggest nerfs to a champion you've never played.

108 Comments

warpenguin5553/27/2015, 6:16:21 PM29 votes

Yes this. i used to say this about hiemerdinger, i bought and played him... ya. you get the point. would upvote until my OCD stops me if i could

deadlychuck3/27/2015, 6:43:08 PM10 votes

I've played every champion multiple times and had good and "bad" games on them all. Though there are a few champions which i don't understand how people can do poorly on, because they are designed and balanced in a way which has such a large margin for error and such a small window for counterplay, that you almost never have a situation which both the enemy makes a mistake and you have the capabilities to punish them for it.

Riven Zed Thresh Fizz Nidalee Vi Lulu

No joke, at least those 6 champions have such a powerful and/or overloaded kit that, MAKING a mistake on them is hard to do. Some of them are super safe (zed, fizz and nid). Have so much power that even their counters aren't strong enough half of the time (riven, vi, fizz). Or they just have an answer for any situation you put them into (thresh, nid, lulu).

Do i think they can't be beat and need to be nerfed into the ground? No. I've beat them all multiple times, but i've also been in situations where there is literally no possible way for me to beat them even if i played it out perfectly, and they made multiple mistakes.

Compared to champions like Zyra Malzahar TwistedFate Anivia Trundle Velkoz where a single miss-step or misplay could spell impending inescapable death.

IziMytTJd73/27/2015, 11:03:06 PM8 votes

Agree 100%. I used to think LeBlanc was super OP because I would always get slaughered by her in lane. But then I started playing her and I realized that I was right.

Kitten of Evil3/27/2015, 6:57:01 PM8 votes

I actually do that, though I don't come on the boards to complain about specific champions that often...

My theory is this: if I, a mage/support main, can pick up a champion of a different role and dominate games after one or two tries, that champion is probably too strong. This was the case with old AP Fizz, Kassadin, Talon (and honestly even old Brand and Orianna, before their ranges were nerfed). I could feel how powerful the champion was, that even a first-time user like me could carry. I didn't have to put in any effort at all.

I should struggle to use a new champion. I know I had the hardest time doing well as Anivia until something clicked and I figured out how to use her more effectively.

D1rtFarmer3/27/2015, 7:31:37 PM5 votes

thats not true, im sure i cant find one reasonable player of op champs who can tell me why they use said champion.

Robert Smith3/27/2015, 10:44:45 PM5 votes

I bought lee sin to find his weakness. He has none. No matter how hard the enemy tried unless they could CC me I could get away or kill. With Banshee Veil nothing could stop me.

EnvyDragon3/28/2015, 2:55:36 AM5 votes

I used to main Nidalee.

Then I grew a conscience.

She's not unstoppable, but she has far, far too much of everything. Her heals add nothing to her kit except to needlessly remove a weakness (why doesn't damage stick to a champion who thrives on poke and burst? "I have taken harass damage without getting a kill" should be a fail state). She has infinite mobility. Her spears' range = damage mechanic is bullshit and completely counterintuitive.

I complain about Nidalee because I know she's got too much. When I lost, it was because an enemy assassin got fed, or the entire team focused me at the expense of my allies. Initiation-tanks should be strong against her, but she can chunk them down before they even get in on her, and she has the mobility to dance around them regardless. And then when you get away from the fight? You heal up and you're back to perfect health.

So yes, I have a right to complain and suggest nerfs to this champion. Take off her heal. Proceed from there.

Drunk Rummate3/27/2015, 7:43:44 PM4 votes

I used to say this about katarina, then I bought her and got a quadra by literally smacking my open palm on the keyboard and I continued to feel that way about katarina afterwards.

Ratbert3/27/2015, 8:51:32 PM4 votes

Except said op champ might not fit my playstyle. I suck at assassins liking a slower paced set of actions, yet I can still faceroll hard enough to get a kill or two with little or no knowledge of how to actually play them well. I do not need to play every champ to be able to see if one is stronger than the other in any context. I can plainly see having mobility makes a champ more forgiving than a champ with no mobility. We can actually use statistics and numbers to compare them on paper, to find out who is "usually" or "somewhat" stronger than another. tl;dr Don't have to eat moldy bread to know it's worse than fresh baked pristine bread and statistics actually matter.

KomePrePongo3/27/2015, 9:50:31 PM3 votes

Played riven. Still overloaded, very mobile and one of the most DPS champs in the game. I would love to see her nerfed.

UdoIkOSc4u3/27/2015, 6:18:25 PM3 votes

i played lee sin and i felt so bad for the enemys such a cancer champ

slôw3/27/2015, 8:49:07 PM3 votes

Same thing for counters, I see people in champ select on smurf say lulz he picked riven into garen but in reality unless you are playing garen to about 90% of his potential riven isn't countered at all really..

game isn't rock paper scissors

I Main Swain3/27/2015, 11:41:23 PM3 votes

absolute truth. I usually try to buy and play a champ before I deem them "op", although there are a few who even afterwards I think could use some much more definite weaknesses Leblanc

Hellish Prophecy3/27/2015, 10:12:23 PM2 votes

I did this with quite a few people. Akali Blitzcrank Fizz Shaco

Hated these assholes so much after playing as them I know how to effectively fight them and don't complain as much about them.

TotalJerk3/27/2015, 9:31:08 PM2 votes

It's generally a wise strategy to actually learn how to play the most popular characters in any game, even if you don't use them.

KatCraft3/28/2015, 2:14:50 PM2 votes

Yeh nah, Personal anecdotes are a useless argument either way. When players complain about champions like Lee and Zed, it's about their design and their impact on the health of the game, not just balance or strength.

Having a reasonable argument backed up with evidence is what's important, not personal experience because that gets heavily influenced by bias.

Midnight Fox3/28/2015, 1:13:40 AM2 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvFW_FCatLM

I'm just gonna leave this here...

D1rtFarmer3/27/2015, 7:34:32 PM2 votes

you're also expecting people like yourself to have integrity. i can clearly admit when i feel a champion i use is overpowered. When Rek Sai dropped.. i made my own post on how i felt she was way too fun.. she must be op. i will do the same with any champ the general consensus feels is op especially if its a champ i use.

wop3/28/2015, 3:41:15 AM2 votes

This is how I feel about Zed. People think he is so OP. Half the things they say about him are easily refuted, and would not be a reason if they had actually played him. Not that I am a Zed main. Yasuo any day.

The Trent3/27/2015, 10:31:14 PM2 votes

I have every single champion in the game. I main Jinx adc. I admit she is easy to play and can carry way harder than most adcs if fed (Graves op). I main Gnar top. He is very strong and before I bought him I called him op I still think he is op. I've played Zed he is really easy to play. I've played Ahri, I don't like her early and mid but her late is really op.