I honestly beleive that Cho'Gath is the most unbalanced champion in the game.

Fusion322·4/9/2015, 5:42:23 PM·3 votes·3,098 views
  • He's got ridiculous sustain that makes it almost impossible to get killed in lane.
  • He can build 1 ap item (ROA) and burst down almost any non tank champ with q>w>r, or at least come close enough to take them out of the fight.
  • He can be very beefy without building a single tank item.
  • He has a free smite

  • He has higher base MR than most champs AND MR per level
  • He has higher movement speed than most champs (including blitzcrank)
  • He has higher base armor than most champs
  • He has one of the highest HP5 stats
  • He has higher base AD and AD per level than most champs

  • Why is his silence so long?
  • Why does his knock up have a slow? There are no others like that I believe

Chogath

24 Comments

SEKAI4/9/2015, 5:46:12 PM9 votes

Yeah but he has 0 mobility, melee, sorta high mana cost, generally high cd, squishy early and stack loss on death.

EDIT: And just from the top of my head, Diana's E is a knockup (sorta) that also gives slow, same with Fizz and Braum's ulti.

Nameless Voice4/9/2015, 6:11:10 PM5 votes

I honestly believe that Cho'gath is one of the most balanced champions in the game.

He has clear strengths and weaknesses, his abilities have clear use cases and counterplay.

Q is very telegraphed and easily dodged, but can be used effectively with skill. W is fairly short-ranged and has a decent cast time, allowing you to dodge out of its cone. E pushes the wave when he uses it. R is very short-ranged.

All of his abilities have fairly high mana costs, too.

67chrome4/9/2015, 6:23:55 PM2 votes
  • He's got ridiculous sustain that makes it almost impossible to get killed in lane.
  • He can build 1 ap item (ROA) and burst down almost any non tank champ with q>w>r, or at least come close enough to take them out of the fight.
  • He can be very beefy without building a single tank item.
  • He has higher base MR than most champs AND MR per level
  • He has higher movement speed than most champs (including blitzcrank)

None of these things are noteworthy.

Having crazy sustain in-lane is how most tanky champions get to feel tanky during the lanning phase. A passive that restores HP is increadibly common on tanks, and a wide range of fighters have HP sustain somewhere in their QWE range if it isn't on their passive. So - not that impressive for rediculous sustain.

For 1 damage item and full tank - all fighter/tanks do that. All of them. Tanks actually have to build tanky to survive long enough to do their job, where assassins, mages, and marksman usually have the mobility, range, or mix of both innately to survive long enough to do their respective jobs. Glass-cannons get defense for free and have to build damage, tanky DPS like Cho get damage for free and have to build defense.

He can't be beefy without building a single tank item. ROA for his only defense still leaves Cho fairly squish. Seeing AS Cho do MADC things is amuzing, but even with plenty of stacks - he isn't exactly Riven's HP shield refresh durable, and he's got nothing on the untargetability spam of Yi, projectile shield-block of Yasou, immunity to AAs of Jax, or capacity to turn anyone invulnerable like Kayle.

The MR complaint is just dumb. Melee champions get 32.1 + 1.25 MR per level. Ranged champions get 30 MR. Those are the only 2 MR per level scaling paths.

MS is also an awkward thing to complain about on Cho, as his 345 isn't exactly the 355 of Yi/Panth and MS only ranges from 325 to 355. Melee champions usually have MS in the higher levels there again. Furthermore - being fast is 99% abilities, 1% base MS. Champions like Lee and Ezreal are fast because their abilities make them fast, having minor MS boosts on Udyr and Ori don't make either particularly speedy. And on abilities - all of Cho'Gath's have a casting time akin to DragonBallZ attacks that really tank Cho's agility and nimbleness, making a lack of speed a fairly large weakness of his.


Beyond that - Cho's AD per level is pretty high, but that means significantly more if you build a lot of Crit, AS, and armor pen. Or build Tri Force. Neither of which Cho typically does, seeing as he's pretty solidly in the AP camp for scaling his DPS, and he needs to build a lot of tank to really function (so no hyper-damage builds).

For armor and HP/5, again - tanky bruiser thing. Tanky DPS champions tend to top the base stat charts here, just as marksman tend to top the charts when it comes to AS per level gains and supports mana through base stats.


Why is his silence so long?

Strength of CC vs. it's purpose. Weak CC types like slows, silences, and blinds can get away with higher durations than hard CC like knockups, stuns, polymorphs, charms, fears, taunts, etc. A 3 second silence is worth about a 1.5 second stun.

Why does his knock up have a slow? There are no others like that I believe

Most abilities in LoL do things no other ability does. There aren't many copy-pasta skills in the game.

MF's AS boost applies Grievous Wounds, Graves' AS boost dashes him over walls, Jinx's AS boost is manaless and ramps up based on AAing things. Even when you're coming really close to mirrored interactions there's usually a curve-ball with listing the 2 things an ability does that winds up making it unique.

I honestly beleive that Cho'Gath is the most unbalanced champion in the game.

You're not making a very good case.

ChargeItDownMid4/9/2015, 5:47:06 PM2 votes

[deleted]

GaleWinUnleashed4/22/2015, 1:27:50 PM1 votes

And guess what? Before apporoximately 2 weeks ago, there were exactly zero complaints about Cho'Gath. Funny how he's suddenly OP when the meta shifts in his favor.

Magus Mist7/31/2015, 1:27:38 PM1 votes

Today, I was really fed ezreal mid. Cho'Gath just killed me with flash-ult ignite.. so dont say his Q is easy to dodge, i mean yeah.. its like nida spear, its easy to dodge but if you dont dodge it, GG. That guy did 1100 with ult at level 13, and was tankier than enemy naut who built full HP. My big issue is that his AP ratios AND base damage are really strong, on top of that he has TRUE DAMAGE AP SCALING NUKE ult which MAKES HIM TANKY... and surprise, that guy has silence which deals TONS OF DAMAGE (not joking, his W took 60% of my HP like what the fk :D ) and yes, his E pushes but he can toggle if off. his passive makes his sustain just too good and hes atm really unbalanced. Fact is, he is not fun to play unless youre sadist like every chogath main is, and also he isnt mobile. Hes not easy to get kited tho, as his knockup is kinda wide-ranged and if he hits it.. youre done. Kiting chogath is just really really really risky, as he can ult + ignite to kill you off. He isnt balanced atm. He lacks clear counterplay. If someone brings up that counterplay to Cho'Gath is kite.. my question is.. which champ doesnt get counterplayed by kite? :D

League should have counterplay in every champ/item/spell. Im NOT talking about counterpick, but counter PLAY. If that guy lastpicks Cho'Gath, you still gotta have some space to win the game. Whats counterplay to him?

KVbqbFsC8e8/3/2016, 6:59:28 AM1 votes

He's actually pretty weak, sub 50 winrate for a long time now.

LordGeovanni8/3/2016, 6:00:50 PM1 votes

his q and w scales with ap a little too much the rest of his problems are that ap items have too much health utility and surviability when mages that build them usually have those same aspects built into their kits besides health

Meurtrierr8/3/2016, 6:18:32 PM1 votes

Not OP at all, but balanced.

Laning phase:

Chogath must heavily push his lane if he wishes to fight.

Level 6:

Chogath must think about becoming big in priority so if you're not big yet, your ult will be on cooldown by the time you can use it to nuke a player.

Difficulty

-Chogath's Q is the easiest ability to predict and it's telegraphed. -If you wish to split push, when it's time to escape, your Q better land everytime they try to gank. -You can't miss your skillshots on a fat chogath. I know he is a tank, but sometime, you don't want to build tank or full tank. -I think chogath is mana hungry.

Vekkna8/3/2016, 6:41:27 PM1 votes

The range and size of his Q are both pretty excessive for how much damage and cc is loaded on there. His W is the most frustrating, though, because it works like the old Annie W where it would calculate hit at the point of casting. Basically, that means he hits you with W if he casts it before your dash/blink animation has ended. In other words, if he's in range with W there is literally no counterplay aside from him missing.

Blueharlequin4/9/2015, 5:59:01 PM1 votes

IMO Cho didn't turn toxic until people started taking him mid. Which tends to be the case. When you take a champion out of where they were intially deisnged to be played they tend to over power those champions.

Like ranged tops against melee tops. Support Panth/Riven for a kill lane. Jungle Fizz kinda. There's been things like this for awhile and it's hard to balance. Build tank and put Cho in top and his kit makes a lot more sense and works better.

Kariu Rena4/9/2015, 6:24:55 PM1 votes

one of those miss all my skillshot land one late game win game champ lol

Monotonous Lie4/22/2015, 1:22:09 PM1 votes

Balanced? ofc hes not.....

  1. he heals 20 per hit with aa lvl 1
  2. his only weakness is his mobility, and if you time your rupture in time you cant knock up the jungler 3, q at max rank is 300 + 100% ap scaling. at this point cho probbaly has around 130 ap so thats 450 magic damage. this has a range of 950
  3. Imagine chogath as nunu, that's able to throw out 2 snowballs at once and ult is true damage. And when he lands a snow ball ur silenced
  4. In PBE Riot is nerfing graves and jinx right now, and in this tank meta, i purely dont believe how tanks are able to kill adcs easier than adcs killing adcs.
  5. there is literally no way for an adc to kill chogath if they have the same farm and level.