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Why Darius In Reality Is Broken

AgentChezni·10/2/2015, 6:38:48 AM·2 votes·1,535 views

The concept behind Darius is a good one--create a character who's slow and bulky movements are outweighed by a powerful zone of offense within a short range around him.

Nobody has a problem with strong characters--we like strong characters. The problem is when there is no counterplay. Thus, in reality, the biggest problem isn't his abilities, his stats, his early game/late game; the problem is there is hardly any room for counterplay when going up against him.

The scenario is one we're familiar with--we have a strong opponent that we are gearing ourselves up to fight. We initially approach Darius the same.

He's AD; I'll build Armor. --You can't. At lvl 18 he deals 25% of your armor for free (before items) and his ult can deal upwards of around 1000+ true damage.

Okay. I'll stack health. --It matters little. Darius's level 5 Q on a roughly 3 second CD deals easily 600+ damage if struck by the blade, even when half of his items are tanky. He can aa-w-aa, since w is a reset; the aa's dealing decent damage (at lvl 18 it's easily 300-400-300 but more importantly applying the bleed) and the w being an empowered aa (as well as applying a 90% slow). Then of course the infamous dunk itself, dealing 1000+ true damage. Adding all these numbers up conservatively grants a 2600 (1600 Armor Reduced and 1000 True Damage) which means in a full successful rotation, he can thoughtlessly dumpster those with less than 2000 HP and with a bit of work, those with higher health (assuming that every target Darius fights is always at full health to begin with, which they aren't). It is fair enough that most any tanky character (with some exceptions like Mundo) might have 4k health at the end of the game meaning our 2000+ combo won't one-shot them. The problem with this inference is that if it's true. It's likely that the target hasn't been building a ton of damage. Darius at his core, is an anti-tank tank that excels at out-trading and out-dueling other tanks. If you've stacked health, you don't have damage, and he does. In a one-on-one slobber-knocker, he'll win.

Okay, I'll kite him. --This is probably the best strategy, but it's not without it's flaws. Kiting is generally the way to go, but in order for a character to have relevant poke, they must build damage, and if you are building damage you don't have HP (our one-and-only counter stat since Darius ignores so much armor). This means that if we kite back constantly, abuse our range and stay out of his--we'll win... in theory. The problem is that we have to work so very very hard to perfectly kite a flash+275-range-pull+90% slow(2x) and let's be real--most of us are human and NOT LCS material. And don't strike back with the "get gud" comebacks, because that's not the point--the point isn't that you can technically kite a Darius all day with the proper range. The problem is that the amount of skill required to always be ready for the flash, to always be landing our poke, to always be successfully csing while staying out of Darius's range is much, much higher than the amount of skill it takes to play Darius. You can brainlessly play Darius, make a few mistakes and still pull off a few effective plays. You can kite for days with Nidallee against a Darius, make one mistake and then get insta-gibbed. Additionally, if you are kiting a Darius, it means you have to have something to kite to--aka a tower. With your back to a figurative wall at all times, you generally going to arrive second when it comes to objectives because you don't have the initiative. You are the one who has to constantly be aware of your enemy's range--you are the one who always has to be kiting back to the safety of a tower--you are the one who always has to be wary of face-checking bushes (or at the very least warding them like we should be doing) for fear of the e-aa-w-aa-q-aa-r combo. Kiting means you are playing defensively, and as we all know, playing defensively is often not the best strategy in LoL. Lastly--and possibly the most frustrating--is the heal on Darius's q. In a perfect world, we are all kiting backwards, we are all staying out of Darius's way, and we are all not getting pulled in by him (or let's be real--his teammates--since we haven't even been including them in these equations). But none of us have ever played a perfect game of League, and certainly none of us have had a game where our teammates have played a perfect game--add to that, that not all champions in the game are ranged and not all champions in the game can poke and kite. It is very rational to consider that at some point, all that poke that you've landed on Darius--all that work you've spent the last 30 seconds gearing up for the big teamfight around baron--will become reduced or in some cases nearly removed by the heal on Darius's q, because someone got too close to him (a cc, out of position, or warding support is all it takes). The biggest counter to poke is heal--and guess what? Darius has got that.

Okay, I'll get him early game. --Darius doesn't have to have a good early game to be effective late-game. He's like the old Yasuo. My point isn't that you can't shut down a Darius early. My point is that the pay-off is not that great.

Okay, I'll take advantage of his low attack speed. -Darius doesn't need attack speed. He has an auto-attack reset, and as long as he lands his skills, he'll have more than enough bleed on you to give you the dunk.

Okay, I'll just dodge the Q by moving away from him. --This is feasible to do; but only if you have not been hit by his 90% slow, of which two of his abilities apply. You can't outrun his q when moving at 10% speed.

Okay, I'll just dodge the Q by moving into him and I'll get hit by the handle. --Wait... so you're telling me in order to counter a champion who's champion wrecking powers are unlocked when you're within 275 range of him, I should run within 275 range of him? No. The only time you want to implement this strategy is if you are going in for the kill. Otherwise, if you can't kill Darius faster than he can run through his combo, you're likely dead--and since he can build tank and has the potential to get 200 free attack damage (just think about that for a moment... 200 extra attack damage on someone who builds absolutely no damage items) killing him won't exactly be a quick process.

Okay, I'll take advantage of his ability spamming and wait until he runs out of mana. --Darius doesn't have mana issues. He might as well not have a mana bar. He doesn't need to build mana, his regular abilities cost 50 at max, and if he's spent his mana to use his ult, chances are you're already dead. Oh, and btw--at level 16 his ult costs 0 mana, so why does he have a mana bar again? Yes, he can run out of mana if he's just recklessly spamming his abilities early on, but... if you're fighting a Darius that stupid, you probably need to raise your ELO.

Okay I'll just... I'll just...

Darius is a character with 25% armor reduction, a true-damage ult that makes Cho'Gath look like poo-poo, a potential 36% missing health heal on a 3-second cooldown, potentially free 200 AD, a free damage over time, two forms of soft cc at a 90% slow, 1 form of hard cc at 275 range that ignores minions and can hit multiple targets, good clear/push with his q.... how do we counterplay against this guy reasonably?

TL/DR--Darius isn't unbeatable, it's just that he has so little counter-play that he might as well be, especially in solo-queue.

7 Comments

BRBGTGBOWFLEX10/2/2015, 8:09:11 AM4 votes

Completely disagree. Having played a lot of Darius, I can give you some pointers on counterplay. While I think he's a bit overbearing at the moment, he does not need to be gutted, just adjusted. That said, there's still counterplay.

You incorrectly mix counterplay with itemization and other things. So I'll respond to both of the topics, first with Counter-play advice, second with a response to your concerns in the off topic that you want to have a rational discussion about it.

I do not disagree that Darius is a bit too strong at the moment. However, it is not for the reasons that you identified and there is definitely counter-play.

Counterplay

  1. Darius can be out-sustained by many champions. Baiting Darius into using his abilities to get him out of mana severely lowers his kill potential on you and if you can outlast him, he's going to either die or disadvantageously back. Poking or trading and sustaining against him will force him to leave. The longer Darius stays without going back, the more and more dangerous it gets for him. Meanwhile Nasus, Irelia, etc can just out sustain it. Others can poke. The bigger weakness is his mana pool which you can take out. Irelia, Nasus, Renekton, Vlad, and many other top laners can sustain without Mana since it is built into their kit. Darius needs a landed Q.

  2. Darius is low mobility and his play patterns leave him vulnerable to ganks. His Q naturally pushes the wave and he has no escapes. Controlling the wave by getting him to push into dangerous territory allows you to counter-play his damage.

  3. Darius's Apprehend has an enormous cool-down and is the biggest threat to many champions. Baiting Darius's E is extremely important, since once it is down you have much more room to bully him. It's like baiting any other hook.

  4. Darius's Apprehend has counter-play. You can just use a movement skill to leave it and avoid the Q.

  5. If you do not have a movement skill, there is another way to counterplay Darius's Q (usually used after E). Rather than run from Darius, just stay near him or run towards after the apprehend. This means you get hit with the weak part of the Axe. You'll take less damage and if he landed his apprehend he already deserves to be rewarded with some damage. You can then walk away. If you do fight Darius 1v1 as melee, your best bet is to stay entirely on top of him so he does not get damage or bleed stacks from Q.

  6. Similar to all hooks-- the counterplay is not getting hit by it through dodging or baiting. If you get hit with a blitz hook you deserve to take the consequences. Same for Darius E.

Counterbuild/Counter Strategy- Replies to your points

  1. Armor still is still effective against Darius. He only gets to dunk in very extended trades, all ins, or in teamfights where he is able to get the position for it without being blown up. And since he builds cleaver, it needs to be extended trades to begin diminishing the advantages of armor. To make your armor useful, you need to avoid letting the trade continue too long. Further, extremely tanky champions can definitely handle his ultimate and take very little from Darius, since he has to put so much of his build towards survival.

  2. Health stacking is similar to the above. His ultimate is gated. People who do not take advantage of that fact pay the consequences. Trade and get out. Or engage and blow up. He's not going to get any real benefit out of a 3 stack dunk.

  3. Your flash argument is sort of weak. Flash Tibbers is much scarier than Flash E. The obvious counterplay is just to movement skill or reply with a flash of your own, preferably both. Or to just kill Darius quickly-- since that move is not usually effective against more than a target in isolation. If you're getting hit by it, it's fairly weak engage for teamfights. One of Darius's biggest weaknesses is that he does not bring particularly great engage. Having any vision on him at all should let you know what to do. Darius has no movement skill to chase with-- he lacks mobility.

If you fail to respond with your flash, that is getting outplayed. Also if you haven't managed the lane to the point where he can flash all in you, you sort of legitimately lost already.

  1. As mentioned above, getting Darius early is great. If you keep him down early, he will be gimped all game. You are incorrect when you say it does nothing-- he requires substantial gold to be useful. Now, if you don't take advantage of this and let him get back in the game, then you sort of deserve to deal with a full power Darius. A 1 damage item no armor item Darius can be killed by damn near anyone mid-game. And if he isn't tanky enough late game, he just dies without being able to get near your carries. This is what happens to Darius when he is ganked.

Darius is very vulnerable to ganks. You have to take advantage of this. It's similar to Annie or other lane bullies. Control the wave, force him to a bad place, and kill.

  1. The items do a lot but are not full counters to Darius. They aren't meant to be.

  2. My guess is that you keep getting into 1v1s with Darius by walking into un-warded jungle. Your biggest counter to Darius would probably be an upgraded vision trinket. But you keep going for sweeper.

Actually here's the biggest issue-- Jungle Nidalee is particularly bad against Darius. You keep playing team-builder to play Nidalee jungle. This is a really bad idea because Darius will be in a great many of those games, and Nid jungle sucks at dealing with Darius.

**Your champion choice is an issue. **

Azirious Mistake10/2/2015, 7:04:15 AM2 votes

To add nothing relevant to the points you have made in this thread, Darius is a product of an overbearing kit and great itemisation options, he can get another auto reset with Titanic Hydra. In other words unless you nerf the juggernaut items or his kit, he's going to be OP no matter what.

Lt Cuddles10/2/2015, 7:53:48 AM1 votes

Dig into this for but a moment...