Unpopular Opinion : Cleanse should work on Malz Ult.

SmurfBlanc·2/20/2018, 11:46:22 PM·18 votes·4,452 views

A long time ago, it was changed, because Cleanse was taken much more often. It used to function as a stun, reduced by merc treads and removed by cleanse.

Currently the only counter to this skill is QSS - an expensive item that is also a dead-end for non ADC characters.

For a champ to have zero recourse whatsoever when Malz flash/ults is ridiculous when entire classes were reworked and neutered due to so-called lack of counterplay.

He already is completely uninteractive in lane with his passive and 'press E, walk away' playstyle, similar to season 1-2 Morgana. His ult is just stupid on top of that.

The entire char deserves a rework, but for the time being, his ult should have more options to counter it.

33 Comments

CrazFight 2/21/2018, 1:48:40 AM7 votes

At what point is this thought to have been an unpopular opinion? can we please stop putting "unpopular opinion" at the front of posts , just for the sake of it.

//rant

Slythion2/21/2018, 1:17:06 AM5 votes

Is it better to have no counterplay or infinitely available counterplay? Which one is more cancerous, and for who?

Skorch2/21/2018, 7:03:07 AM4 votes

Honestly I disagree. Suppressions should be the last line of CC if you need it. So I think it would be better if QSS DIDNT remove suppression. This means champions like malz/WW dont have to deal with what Zed dealt with. And the ability might be balanced more.

And we also no longer get the "ADC have QSS why dont we have an AP equivalent" thing...

Cunky2/21/2018, 2:51:24 AM4 votes

this isn't an unpopular opinion. everybody that doesn't play malzahar wants this

Dead flag blues2/21/2018, 12:29:38 AM4 votes

No it shouldn't, seeing the enemy picking Malzahar mid, and instantly swapping your summoner 12 / summoner 14 to a summoner 1 isn't a form of counterplay.

SweedishGunner2/21/2018, 3:57:15 AM3 votes

Do that and give his ult AP ratio back.

Death by Glamour2/21/2018, 2:02:27 AM3 votes

when are we going to see and actual unpopular opinion in these types of threads

[slayer-jinx-catface]

just to point out I agree with you

Beacon Academy2/21/2018, 9:38:34 AM3 votes

Lets bitch about Malzahar being uninteractive...

And then lets nerf his already damage nerfed ult even further with a summoner spell

Never mind Maw

or QSS

or Banshee's

or Adaptive Helm

or Nullifying Orb

or CC in general

Yea man... That'll totes fix him and make him more interactive in lane.


Seriously though.

Q has been overall decreased to 210 + 65% with 2s Silence from 300 + 80% with 3 Second Silence

Voidlings went from tanky AD damage source to squishy magic damage good for minion killing

Nether Grasp's flat damage has been overall nerfed to 275 + 80% from 550 + 130%

Null Zone has been overall nerfed to 2% + 0.25% per 100 AP from 6% + 1% per 100 AP

He lost 5 movement speed

He lost 50 auto attack range

He lost some base armor

The only benefit this Malzahar has from the old one is E resets and that only made his kit more limited.


How much more do you people want??? Holy shit.

I may not play him anymore after the MYMU but it hurts to see someone I used to play everyday get this much hate only AFTER an update he didn't actually need.

BobaFlautist2/20/2018, 11:54:35 PM2 votes

Genius idea:

Malzahar ult no longer suppresses, and the tether can no longer be broken by distance (but still can by cc)

For the duration of the ult, Malzahar is completely immune to all damage, cc, and other negative effects coming from the target. The pool will also follow the target, and voidlings get +1000% movespeed when moving towards the target.

underscores2222/21/2018, 6:32:55 AM2 votes

I see parallels here to the QSS change to not remove Zed ult's mark. At the time, it was basically said that one thing should not shut down a champ so completely (remove all success cases from their ult). I feel like cleanse removing suppression (because it would have to change to that) would be very unfair to other champs who have suppressions, like WW, Urgot, and Skarner.

Indeed, there's enough other ways to stop a Malz ult - unless you're alone against him - that he rarely gets the full duration off anyway.

I don't think cleanse is the proper area to nerf Malz, simply because the repercussions are more complicated than first expected.

hhaavviikk2/21/2018, 8:29:17 AM2 votes

I think the only thing that does is make malzahar play EVEN MORE passively, after all why try and engage with your ult when you will auto-lose the engage when they got cleanse?

DJShawnee10/5/2018, 3:06:57 PM1 votes

I just want to put a comment about all the people saying he would be like old zed then again. Malz ult is completely different it takes a champ out of the fight and allows everyone to hit you while doing tons of damage. It makes sense that you should be able to cleanse it instead of screwing your building to get qss.

Maldini302/21/2018, 9:35:43 AM1 votes

A dead-end for non-ADC characters?

Tryndamere cares to disagree.

FairyDoll2/21/2018, 9:38:23 AM1 votes

Cleanse shouldn't work on his ult.

You can already counter his ult by CCing him, which cancels it. Pretty simple to do considering the short range of his R.

AuraCreed2/21/2018, 12:25:33 AM1 votes

Personally I'd rather have cleanse work on oppression then QSS being able to. A summoner spell should have more power then an item with a similar function.

Barkley2/21/2018, 9:45:59 AM1 votes

Better option.... give AP champions a build path from QSS.

OP Garen Support2/21/2018, 9:50:39 AM1 votes

I dont know maybe dont walk into his face when his ult is up.

Glory972/21/2018, 11:03:11 AM1 votes

If cleanse worked on malz ult, the champion would be ruined. And I don't even think the ultimate is the biggest issue in malzahars kit. I think he is so oppresive because of how little resources (mana/cd) he needs to invest to hard push the lane and just force his lane opponent to hug his tower for the whole duration of the laning phase.

Teridax682/21/2018, 1:44:30 PM1 votes

Not sure this is all that much of an unpopular opinion, but I agree: Cleanse is a summoner spell with less cleansing power than an item (QSS), and whose non-interaction with suppression, and therefore Malzahar's ult, makes no sense in the game's current context. In fact, Cleanse not working on Malz's ult is such an unintuitive feature that at least one actual Rioter mistakenly recommended the spell as a counter to the champion, completely ignorant of the fact that suppression was, in fact, one of the very few CC types Cleanse didn't counter. As a spell that is already largely outclassed by itemization, to the point of not even being picked by CC-vulnerable champions while CC in the game is at an all-time high, Cleanse could very well use a touch-up, such as a more complete range of CC it can remove. If that can't be done, then it might be time to do away with the spell entirely, and make QSS available to more classes as a result.

This, by the way, is also one of the reasons why I think special-casing any mechanic is a terrible idea. Perhaps it might make sense as a quick fix in a very specific balancing context, where a particular set of champions, items and spells are strong and others are weaker, but once the game changes (and it always does), that "fix" turns into a problem instead, one that forces players to memorize more trivia just so that they don't get screwed over by some unintuitive hidden feature. Even when that special-casing existed, it still didn't make sense, because QSS was a thing too, and to this day we're seeing the negative impact of that design decision with Malzahar remaining as binary as ever. Malzahar and perhaps Skarner are the only two champions that truly get screwed over by QSS, and both are notorious for having design problems, so if generalizing Cleanse's counters hurts them, that is all the more indication that the problem lies with their kits, not with the summoner spell.

rework trundle2/21/2018, 1:50:14 PM1 votes

Unpopular opinion : this is a popular opinion

xelaker2/21/2018, 4:12:53 PM1 votes

would be kind of a boner to make a champs ult useless because you took a sum though wouldn't it?

Rootlo2/21/2018, 8:39:23 PM1 votes

Dont do that, he already has to get in close range to ult you. And if he ults too early in a team fight he dies as he has to STUN HIMSELF to STUN YOU. Its not like WW who is super tanky or Skarner who can move. Nor is it like Karthus and Xerath who can both ult from the fog of war.

abca982/21/2018, 7:19:07 AM1 votes

"uNpOpUlAr OpInIoN"