The Garen "rework" is an abomination

Imminent42·8/4/2015, 11:44:16 PM·255 votes·26,953 views

I honestly thought I was reading a terrible April Fool's Day joke when I saw the rework posted.

Now don't get me wrong. I love playing Garen, however he is one of those champions that I'd never pick in a game that I really wanted to win, because there will always a better alternative. There is also the fact that Garen is not a champion who can easily carry or turn around games, and has a distinct lack of ability to make flashy 'plays'. This is a cardinal sin for a champion in a role who is intended to be able to chase down and eliminate enemy carries.

We can begin by examining the core strengths and weaknesses of Garen's kit.

Strengths:

  • Manaless
  • High Durability/Sustain (with his current passive)

Weaknesses:

  • Very Poor CC
  • Poor mobility
  • No ranged abilities
  • Long windup on Q auto attack (deserves a special mention)

Garen's #1 problem since the beginning of time has not been his build paths or even his damage late game, it was his lack of reliability against teams with even modest amounts of mobility or peel. Garen's 'tatic' is to run at the enemy champion with a moderate speed buff and try to auto attack them. The nature of the slow cleanse on Decisive Strike (Q) also puts Garens in an awkward position where they can't catch the enemy champion if they don't activate it, but if they do it leaves them vulnerable to any CC they may have. Fortunately the added tenacity from Courage (W) active helps counter this vulnerability, but only marginally and only in the cases where the enemy champion isn't simply using a gap opener instead. This doesn't allow for much flexibility in Garen's strategy, and flash is tantamount to a necessity for him.

Now lets break down how the rework affects his gameplay:

Base Stats:

  • (Nerf) Health/lvl 96 >>> 84.25
    
  • (Buff) AD/lvl 3.5 >>> 4.5
    
  • (Buff) Armor/lvl 2.7 >>> 3.0
    
  • (Buff) Attack Range 125 >>> 175
    

A large nerf for his scaling health per level, with modest buffs on his AD and Armor scaling. I don't understand why they want to cut his health stat so hard. The increased auto attack range is certainly nice for Garen, but not something that's probably necessary or healthy overall. Melee champions are balanced around 125 range autos, with a few exceptions and generally they should remain there.

Passive - Perseverance:

  • (Nerf) Regen/sec @lvl16 2% max Health >>> 1.6%
    

Hoy boy down comes the axe. Ignoring other sources of regen to make the math easier, with his current passive it takes Garen 54 seconds to reach full HP. 54 seconds is a long time to be out of combat with champions, enough time to die and respawn, or simply recall and reach most places on the map. In contrast it takes a life steal based champion a good one or two creep waves to heal to full hp. In this same patch Riot is buffing Warmog's to be almost twice as strong as Garen's passive, so its clear that they don't deem this an unhealthy mechanic, yet they don't seem to want to allow Garen's passive to be strong enough to provide him with the sustain he needs to justify not building Warmog's. A highly unnecessary nerf at best.

Q - Decisive Strike:

  • (Nerf) Silence Duration 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 >>> 1.5 all ranks
    

I'm not sure where to begin with this one honestly. Why touch his one form of CC? CC that isn't even hard CC. CC that he depends heavily on to land the rest of the damage in his kit. The upshot of this change means that enemies will be flashing/escaping from Garen before he can even finish his E let alone get any extra damage off on his target.

W - Courage:

  • (Removed) 20% increased bonus Armor and Magic Resist
    
  • (Added) Killing units permanently grants 0.2 Armor and Magic Resist (1 for champions, large monsters, and epic monsters), up to a maximum of 10/15/20/25/30
    
  • (Removed) Active Tenacity component
    

Talk about being taken to the dumpster. Didn't Riot say a long time ago that having stacking on his W was a bad mechanic that favored uneven matchups? Either you're winning lane and you're unkillable, or are getting stomped and you're made out of paper. But to add insult to injury, they put a cap on the stacking mechanic, and no less one that scales per level. No other champion in the game with a similar stacking mechanic has any cap at all on how much they can stack it let alone one that scales per level. Whats the upshot of it scaling per level? Unless you max it early, you're going to have to continue farming until very late game to get the most out of your kit. But whats the real kicker on it? Even when fully stacked its going to be weaker than the current passive on most Garen builds.

Since they are taking out so much power from the passive component, surely they must be buffing its active right? Wrong. Completely removed the tenacity component. Remember how we have problems getting to enemy carries on teams with strong CC? Yeah, good luck with that now. And to add even more fun, you're going to be melting even faster than you were before as well. Simply put a bizarre, baffling, unjustifiable nerf.

E - Judgment:

  • (Nerf) Base Damage per tick 10.0/22.5/35.0/47.5/60 >>> 12.0/16.0/20.0/24.0/28.0
    
  • (Buff) Total Attack Damage Ratio per tick 0.35/0.40/0.45/0.50/0.55 >>> 0.47/0.49/0.51/0.53/0.55
    
  • (Nerf) Base ticks per cast 6 >>> 5
    
  • (Buff) Cooldown 13/12/11/10/9 >>> 9 at all ranks
    
  • (Added) Judgment’s spin speed permanently increases at levels 1/4/7/10/13/16, resulting in a total of 5/6/7/8/9/10 maximum ticks of damage per cast
    
  • (Added) Cancelling Judgment early returns cooldown of Judgment equal to the remaining duration of the buff
    
  • (Removed) Judgment no longer benefits from Critical Strike Chance or Critical Strike Damage
    
  • (Removed) Garen no longer moves 20% slower while moving through minions
    
  • (Added) Garen now moves 20% slower while moving toward champions he’s hitting with Judgment
    

I don't have all that much to say about most of this one, other than it makes calculating the scaling a lot more annoying, and mauls his early game potential. Goodbye to Garen's Riven and Renekton matchups. One change that I do think deserves special mention however:

(Added) Garen now moves 20% slower while moving toward champions he’s hitting with Judgment

This one really threw me for a loop. I don't really think I need to point out why. Considering all the difficulty Garen has just in reaching his opponent, you'd think Riot would at least allow him to stick to his opponent even just a little bit. But nope. Enjoy your new, shorter silences Garen players. But wait, there's more! You now CC yourself, and make it even more impossible to stick to your opponent for doing exactly what you are supposed to do. Bravo Riot. This one really takes the cake.

R - Demacian Justice:

  • (Added) Passive: The enemy champion with the most recent kills is the Villain. Judgment ticks and basic attacks on the Villain deal an additional 1% of its max Health as true damage
    
  • (Added) Demacian Justice now deals true damage to the Villain instead of magic damage
    

So this is where the new 'mechanic' Riot was cooking up comes into play. Saying I'm disappointed would be like saying jumping in an acid bath burns a little bit. It really feels like they were just trying to force something 'unique' into the game, no matter how little sense it made or how badly designed it was.

First lets analyze this 'mechanic' from Garen's opponents perspective. You weren't the last person to get a kill. Great. Don't worry about a thing. But now you just got a kill. Good job, you're supposed to get kills, and in fact the game rewards you for doing so. But watch out, now Garen has insane % max health true damage procs on you. Did we forget about true damage not always being a healthy design decision or something? So now you have no way to itemize against your opponents damage, you better avoid getting kills from now on. Sounds really fun right guys?

Now lets see it through Garen's perspective. Short of letting his allies die, Garen has no control over who his kit is going to be effective against. Worse, in a team fight its going to chaotically switch around, so even if he did get onto his Villainous target, it could very easily swap over to another play, without any say from Garen in the matter. Remember when you could play the strengths of your kits based on your own decisions? But this mechanic also introduces another problem for Garen. Lets say a champion like Ahri, Kallista, or Tristana is the current Villian. Good luck reaching them. There are plenty of champions in the game that Garen simply cannot catch unless his opponent misplays horribly. So now you have your passive on a champion you can never reach in a million years, and is completely useless. Does that seem like interesting game play to you? I read a Riot post that said this is supposed to 'encourage Garen's team to help him reach his target', and I almost laughed. If that's how limited Garen's kit is going to be you might as well have another ADC, who can easily do more damage more reliably on your team instead. No one is ever going to get a team built around letting a Garen reach his target, and seeing as how many other aspects of his game play are out of his control, I don't see why anyone would want to play him in the first place.

I don't understand why Riot wants to sacrifice Garen's tankiness and sustain so he can delete an enemy in one spell rotation provided he reaches his target with his very limited kit. It reduces the viability of his niche and makes him even more one dimensional than he was before. I understand that Riot wants to keep Garen as an 'easy to learn' champion. When I heard they were reworking him, I was really excited and hoping that they would introduce something to raise his skill ceiling, while retaining his easy to learn appeal, to give some love to players who play Garen at higher levels. I love Riot and I love League, but it really saddens me to see changes like this proposed to a champion I love so much. I sincerely hope they reconsider this one, and frankly take the rework on Garen back to the drawing board. He deserves better.

189 Comments

Phuc Dat Bich8/4/2015, 11:58:20 PM66 votes

when i see the 20% slow on E i was done...like ok so now if you use E on the enemy the enemy would walk away from you simple because you were be slower by 20%

RITO BALANCE BOYZ

And the Q the best !!! garen have only 1 cc and they gut it to 1.5seconds hahahahahahah

The new W boy that some next level stuff over there 10 armor boy YEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH but you lose Tenacity and damage reduction because you know garen was sooooooooo good at going in and nobody was able to kit him!!

Oh boy well i guess garen would be drop at 20% win ratio

I want to know who come with that garen rework because hell this guy need to be fired right now!

SavemeEric8/5/2015, 1:29:54 AM37 votes

Yea realistically these changes are shit, it takes away so much diversity from his play style. It is the death of crit Garen and a severe nerf to his snowball potential. It is also a nerf to full tank Garen as his silence on his Q is nerfed as well as his innate tankyness in his W and his late game regen from his passive. These are are things he desperately needs if he falls behind or gets counterpicked so that he doesn't feed. His early game nerfs will also limit his potential as a counter to Riven, Renekton, and other early game powerhouses. We end up with less stickyness, less tankyness,, and less damage that a full crit garen. This forces us down a linear build bath of brawler. The new Ult passive is also gimmicky and will make it harder on new players learning tom focus the carry. Now they will attempt to kill whoever is marked even if it is a 5k tank Sion with his passive up. Overall this is a serious nerf to Garens; playability, tankyness, stickyness, damage, and diversity. They are essentially making him mediocre at everything instead of allowing him to build what he wants to be good at situationally. Right now he is not in a bad place as he can try to snowball early and failing that transition to a tank or brawler. After these nerfs I really feel he wont be nearly as viable or diverse.

KING OF MASKS8/5/2015, 5:31:07 AM19 votes

{quoted}When I heard they were reworking him, I was really excited

Well there's your problem. The appropriate reaction to hearing one of your favorite champions is being reworked is paralyzing dread.

In all seriousness, does every single goddamn champion need to have a lategame? Garen already has a niche as an early game beast; this rework utterly ruins that. He is wonderful as he is now; these sweeping changes are unnecessary, unwelcome, and at the end of the day just make me fucking angry. Teeth-grinding, inanimate-object-punching angry.

Oh well.

I had a good run with Garen. Probably my favorite champion, at the very least in my top three. It'll be a shame to see him go.

JusticePauldrons8/5/2015, 2:07:51 AM19 votes

I don't understand, why would using judgement slow him now? Why remove his critical chance? Why nerf the only crowd control he has? Why get rid of the tenacity he needs to get into fights? The ult changes were cool, I like that, they weren't nearly as good as the darius buff but it was still nice. But this?! What the hell?

Riot please listen here, please.

  • Remove the slow on judgement: You want Garen to be an offensive fighter with no gap closer, but you are making him slow HIMSELF when using his only form of damage and this NEGATES the benefit of item 3071 completely! This change more important than ANY OTHER needs to be addressed **immediately! **

  • Remove the nerf to his silence: It is his only form of crowd control, and it is not hard crowd control either. It doesn't stop an opponent from moving, it doesn't stop them from attacking and it is all he has. I thought you guys weren't going to touch it...

I had so much faith when I saw the juggernaut page, now I honestly feel like I am about to cry. I know this stuff doesn't always go out like the changes are first shown, but if he goes out like this you will have made him into nothing but a gimmick champion.

Honestly, just go through with the ult changes and don't change anything else if you have to. No scaling ticks, no attack range increase or refunded cooldowns. You tried to change so much for the better and it seems like the negatives were slapped on there just to make up for it without any kind of thought process behind it. I have no idea what to say guys. I hope this change doesn't make it into the game, because as someone who plays this guy almost exclusively, you are killing him.

Shadow Gilgamesh8/4/2015, 11:58:34 PM19 votes

But hey man, he got Riots new favorite mechanic tho.

% max HP true damage man, loads of fun for literally no one.

UberButtocks8/5/2015, 12:57:23 AM14 votes

Upvoted for (Demacian) justice.

At this point it would be better to just leave Garen and Darius alone. I can't remember a worse PBE cycle than this, and we are only a day in.

SconeThrone8/5/2015, 12:30:18 AM10 votes

I agree with just about everything said.

I'd love it if a Rioter could come in and explain these shenanigans to us.

Ace Access 8/5/2015, 12:54:31 PM8 votes

Garen is the only champ I like playing top lane, now I'll most likely never play him guess I'm going back to being adc

20% when using E........ who the **** thought of this ? is this an attempt to make every garen player rush item 3044 ?

W doesn't give 20% bonus...... let me guess garen is building too much damage so you want to make him build more defenses instead by giving him 30 more armor/mr so that he will be easier to kill ? don't deny it

Q silence duration..... does anyone in dev team even play the champ their balancing/reworking ? anyone ?

passive..... WTF is the meaning of this ****, garen is supposed to regen his HP super fast when out of combat NOT take forever, this is what allowed me to get back in the fight sooner

this rework is pretty much butchered his early game, he is supposed to be a big bully early game and now that part has been slaughtered

this rework is as bad as what Red5 did to Firefall on release, they turned it into SHIT

MintChipHomieLix8/4/2015, 11:48:07 PM7 votes

Well put together man, I feel the same way a champ that was part of the starter pack deserves a lot better than the mistreatment that he is receiving.

52426480_DEL8/5/2015, 12:04:00 AM7 votes

This new Garen rework is gonna be awesome. He actually has an identity now and his gimmick is actually cool. Riot is showing they want to expand on their characters abilities and highlight strengths and weaknesses instead of having bland champs that have one sole purpose.

Nollix8/5/2015, 11:51:25 AM6 votes

Riot. Stop. Just fucking stop. Stop reworking obscure champs just because you feel the need to arbitrarily change them. Stop doing it. Stop ruining everything. Garen is SUPPOSED to be good in the early game, what are you doing?

Narog8/5/2015, 1:50:29 AM6 votes

abomination is the same i think every time i seen the balance changes recently.

Dextix LT8/5/2015, 11:10:17 AM6 votes

Wait, this is a "rework"? Isnt this "Gut garen because we dont know how to balance our own game"?

Darckill3r8/7/2015, 12:04:22 AM5 votes

Garen is my main and my favorite champ and I always play him on solotop for 5 years now.

I know him by heart, know all the tricks and the way to play him, I even win most of the time against my counters. I win more than 95% of my lane with my current build. I know exactly which is the best for him facing different kind of enemies in a game and what to build to be the most effective.

Best way to play Garen is to be TANKY OFFENSIVE. NOT A TANK, I REPEAT: GAREN IS NOT A TANK. HE IS A MIGHTY KNIGHT FIGHTER.

Garen is a mighty knight fighter with a big noble sword. I like the spirit of this champ and I think this is the one which are the most corresponding to me.

I build a lot of AD for Garen and he really needs it: generally item 3031 + item 3156 + item 3071 I also build him tanky : item 3143 + item 3083 + item 3075 / item 3026

My masteries are 21 Attack / 9 Defense / 0 Utilities. Yes, Garen is design to deliver huge damage.

My Runes gives me + 19 AD at start (flat damages) / +5.4 MR / + 4 Armor

I AM TOTALLY AGAINST THOSE REWORK AND CHANGES on Garen, which is a major nerf.

Why when I attack my target, I am slowed ? Why removing the critical damage from judgment, which was OP against some bruisers or to kill faster an ADC or even to threat the full enemy tank ? Why nerfing the ONLY little CC that Garen have, the silence ? Why nerfing his ability to get 20% of MR and Armor since it is totally justified because he need to reach his target to fight and trade with her ? Why removing Tenacity, since Garen encounters problem with CC ?

The only thing interesting to keep and improve, is to exchange the nature of the ulti damage: magical to true damage. But not with the mechanic of the Villain. Without it. True damage like Darius. ulti Garen need to be effective on late game.

This is the ONLY change Garen need actually.

EchoZeero8/5/2015, 12:15:32 AM5 votes

The self CC on E makes absolutely no sense.It's already easy enough to run out of the very low range it has, now Garen's helping them out of it. WTF Rito?

HayRoss8/5/2015, 4:21:31 AM5 votes

(I'm level 14, I suck at this game, and I don't understand anything that these high-level people are talking about, so please bear with me) Okay, from what I knew about the old Garen, he was: -Moderately to very tanky (Depending on builds) -Can deal decent damage with high AD items -Slow -Lacks CC -With Warmog's armor, has health regen like he's playing Call of Duty -Rather simple

So now with the changes, he's pretty much the same, but: -Is less tanky -Deals less damage unless they just killed an ally, in that case Garen will destroy them into a small pulp -Even slower -Has even less CC -Less health regen for no reason -Abilities pointlessly more complex

So other than a pretty cool gimmick (I like the concept of it, the execution (No pun intended) is poor), the buffed Garen too much in one area and made him shit in everywhere else? Is that what is happening? If so, I'm glad I found a different champion to main

Håppy8/5/2015, 12:51:18 PM5 votes

I'm.. speechless. Garen was the first champion I reached level 5 with, first champion I picked up, and my favorite meta top pick (Granted, I don't generally pick meta tops, but Garen is my go-to.) I could destroy anybody, even counters to him, because I knew how to farm without pushing the wave, I could harass with E and not kill the minions, zone then proxy farm and roam. None of that will be possible now. Critical strike doesn't affect his E, soooo.. bye, infinity edge youmuu's triforce assassin Garen. Goodbye ANY AND ALL variations of the champion that make him versatile, and goodbye Garen because he's so hilariously nerfed that any champions he could fight are now just going to spam laugh and chase you out of lane. They don't even need to kill you because doing so will buff you against them until your team gets a kill, instead they'll drop you to like 5hp and know that your passive is too weak to heal you anywhere close to reliably now. And because you don't WANT to die, it's league instincts, you'll go back to base like a good boy and give up the lane.

Tsohgder8/5/2015, 7:03:53 AM4 votes

About the slow on his E...

I guess I'll just build AS, max W and Q, feed the enemy laner and auto-attack him with my new on-hit true damage.

Because that actually sounds less dumb than his E now.

Dis Gai8/5/2015, 4:08:25 PM4 votes

I thought Garen was suppose to be a beginner's champion. Do the people who make these changes even play these champions, or the game??

RikkiTorment8/5/2015, 5:46:02 AM4 votes

The last month of what has happened with this game has been an abomination...

ZodiacLegend8/5/2015, 5:43:41 AM4 votes

At this point, I just ask that they leave Garen the way he is currently (on live). I was so excited for the "rework" because Garen has alot of innate weaknesses that could benefit from small tweaks. But these changes... SMH

Saminus Maximus8/5/2015, 11:20:02 AM4 votes

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject aside from one thing you said.

But watch out, now Garen has insane % max health true damage procs on you.

He deals 1% max hp true damage. 1%. Even with a level 18 e thats 10% true damage. Considering who'll most likely be the villain being the enemy adc or mage, that isnt really helpfull and is certainly not worth every other skill getting gutted for.

F4rva8/5/2015, 5:36:24 AM4 votes

I love Garen and it would be cool to change him around, but when the new Garen is worse than the old Garen???

(Added) Garen now moves 20% slower while moving toward champions he’s hitting with Judgment

LOL xD, I %@$# myself laughing at these changes.

MHDEN8/5/2015, 10:05:07 AM4 votes

Garen getting a slow debuff isn't something new , he always had it BUUUUT every Garen player also knew that using Q wile on E would remove it ,well not anymore , the slow is applied each time you damage the enemy , so yea , you will remove the speed debuff for 1 tick of damage , so you better make it count .
On W tenacity removal . Just NO , if you have questions as to why go play garen 3-4 matches , that will answer your question Garen-teed. The new stacking passive is SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT . You need 150 creeps just to get an added 30 armor and mr ... that you only get to stack if you put points in your freaking W . Remove the cap on the stacking , make it 50 armor and mr , and let it gain 0.4 per creep and then it will be fine . On E you down right are telling people GET AD else you cant farm shit .People will start Dorans blade just because they cant farm and will get bullied out of lane, great idea .
On R nothing to add to the post . You serius ? True damage ? On a very specific target ? Garen almost exclusively uses his Ulty to kill tanks , he finally became viable on the tank meta as tank killer and you take that away from him ? Tanks arent suppose to get kills , knowing that how is garen is going to kill said tank that doesn't have the R passive on ?

Garen is my main and this hurts me deeply .

TerribleClifford8/5/2015, 1:44:18 AM4 votes

So what are the chances Riot will actually have the balls to admit that they fucked up with these proposed changes, and substitute it with something sensible?

I'm thinking about 2%, although that might be generous.

Voidgolem8/5/2015, 7:38:30 PM3 votes

potential maximum damage went up. Good luck actually connecting with it, though.

KYU228/6/2015, 1:41:21 AM3 votes

I'm so fucking confused. When they announced these mini reworks i thought it would be like minor additions to the champions and that's it. First off, these champions aren't even in a good spot, so they need all of the buffs they can get, and destroying them with retarded nerfs is a dumb idea. The little buffs they gave out are hardly noticeable, at least in comparison to what they had to lose to get it.

LVL 5 PORO8/5/2015, 12:46:33 AM3 votes

I love it! Right now he does crap tons of damage, is tanky, AND mobile. Taking away his mobility was needed. You cant have all three, there needs to be a trade-off.

Zhugan8/5/2015, 10:14:50 PM3 votes

I would love, just once, to play this champion and not be a troll. For Riot to make changes to Garen that actually let him be legitimately good for ONE patch. Hell, for ONE DAY.

But no, my favorite champion is getting shitcanned for the benefit of a tiny bit more damage against one target that he'll never be able to stay with because he fucking gives himself a 20% slow.

GG Rito, you win. I fucking give up. If these changes go through... I may actually 100% stop buying RP and playing the game. Never made that threat before, but I've not been so stupefied by changes before either.

gary927018/5/2015, 1:20:55 PM2 votes

2000 Played Garen Rework Review

Nerf List Base:(Nerf) Health/lvl 96 >>> 84.25 Passive:Nerf) Regen/sec @lvl16 2% max Health >>> 1.6% Q:(Nerf) Silence Duration 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 >>> 1.5 all ranks W Remove:(Removed) 20% increased bonus Armor and Magic Resist,(Removed) Active Tenacity component E:(Nerf) Base Damage per tick 10.0/22.5/35.0/47.5/60 >>> 12.0/16.0/20.0/24.0/28.0,(Nerf) Base ticks per cast 6 >>> 5,(Removed) Judgment no longer benefits from Critical Strike Chance or Critical Strike Damage,(Removed) Garen no longer moves 20% slower while moving through minions

Buff List:Base:(Buff) AD/lvl 3.5 >>> 4.5 (Buff) Armor/lvl 2.7 >>> 3.0 (Buff) Attack Range 125 >>> 175 E:(Buff) Total Attack Damage Ratio per tick 0.35/0.40/0.45/0.50/0.55 >>> 0.47/0.49/0.51/0.53/0.55 E:(Buff) Cooldown 13/12/11/10/9 >>> 9 at all ranks

R - Demacian Justice:

(Added) Passive: The enemy champion with the most recent kills is the Villain. Judgment ticks and basic attacks on the Villain deal an additional 1% of its max Health as true damage (Added) Demacian Justice now deals true damage to the Villain instead of magic damage

unpractical ulti old garen focus new garen focus difference ? Lane competitor ulti or 20 kill mid kata ulti do we have functional garen almost all fighter features nerf functional buff garen support ?(Buff) Armor/lvl 2.7 >>> 3.0 by comparison Base:(Nerf) Health/lvl 96 >>> 84.25 nerf early old w 20% increased bonus Armor and Magic Resist 9 armor runes w open result bonus 1 armor We forced entry capability 9/21 q,e after clocking a champion 1vs1 weak late in the game for the muscles to have these conditions ,mechanic 50 minion 10! armor tank garen vs assassin rengar w level 5, 32 armor,rammus w,malp w,poppy w,riven e, more... defensive capabilities %30protection w 24 cooldown early 2 second to withstand poked So hard does not pass through the minion giryo you 're eating on the bottom to hit q petite damage then to shoot defenseless among petite You have to play in these conditions

functional buff story R Buff and q,e,w,passive all nerf Fighter/Tank We want the right to give garen...

That is not my main account

Realhrage8/5/2015, 6:19:13 AM2 votes

So he no longer hard counters bad rivens...

junglerboy168/6/2015, 12:18:32 AM2 votes

The passive nerf actually hurts a lot more when you consider the average Garen gets to around 4k HP late game (probably more if built full tank after these changes). 2% a second is 10% HP5, so he has 400 free HP5 when out of combat 4 seconds. after the nerf, that amount is decreased by 20% leaving him at only 320 free HP5 out of combat. It's still an impressive amount, but it is an astonishingly brutal nerf of -80 HP5 for the average late game Garen.

Q nerf kind of makes sense based on their whole goal of low CC but high durability and damage. It's a big nerf, but it would be warranted if they followed up with the buffs they said he'd be getting.

W: I just, I mean, like WTF. There that is my analysis. Ok, serious mode, this change makes zero sense. Remove his bonus armor and MR? Really? The thing in his kit that emphasized his intended role as a super tanky damage threat? the thing that already fit in perfectly with their goal for the new Garen? Stacking Armor and MR for killing creeps? Woo, it does the same thing as the old passive but forces you to farm and max the ability to get it to stack before late game. Passive gameplay and invisible power, but a lot less intuitive ("kill creeps to get tanky" vs "Garen gets tanky when you build tanky items on him") Removed Tenacity? Ok, I can't be alone in that I expected this to go sooner or later (the last several times Rito made changes to champs with in-built Tenacity like Mundo, they removed it when reworking the ability), but on Garen, the champ who basically needs that tenacity to not get kited into the ground, this is basically a nutpunch.

Speaking of getting kited into the ground, E changes. These are kind of a mixed bag. They added far too much counterplay when the easiest and best fix for "we need him not to slaughter you in lane but still be relevant in teamfights" was to simply have the minion slow scale down with rank hitting 0% at max rank. EASY fix that keeps his early game in check (could even be tuned to slow him more than live at early ranks) but allows his late game to open up some, not this BS slowed when approaching enemy champs (as if he weren't kitable enough already). Reduced damage per tick but increased spin rate basically cancel out in terms of total damage, but allow his % health damage to be applied more aggressively than if they didn't make this adjustment (also a buff to Garen using BC, which is good). Removal of Crit synergy is something I expected all along, since they want his damage to be essentially self sufficient (buy BC and your damage is set for the whole game as opposed to RNG Crit damage reliance), basically meaning he doesn't have the same issues of having to choose damage or durability, which used to leave him as either too squishy and easily blown up, or lacking damage and easily ignored.

R changes are all good in my opinion (especially the new indicator showing when the villain is in execute range) true damage against the fed enemy is always a plus.

TL;DR: these changes are for the better in my opinion, but W needs to be reverted (all the changes do basically nothing to his balance and add unnecessary gameplay complexity for no real improvement in the interactivity of his kit), the passive nerf needs to be reverted (it makes no sense in any context to nerf it) and the E self slow needs to be based on minions and then decrease to 0% with rank).

EDIT: These changes will functionally make Garen serve as Mundo V 2.0, a champion designed to build full tank and rely on his natural damage to do anything. We already have Mundo for that, and Garen won't really be that great since he won't even have poke like Mundo does.

DreamReaper1238/5/2015, 4:27:58 PM1 votes

I'm really disappointed about the removal of crit garen