Why Shaco should not be buffed.

Thefrostyviking·4/8/2019, 9:14:30 PM·5 votes·3,792 views

Hello!

So i have over the least few days seen a lot of posts and even comments requesting Shaco buffs and claiming that he is much too weak and that the update under the assassin rework was unjustified and that he was balanced before that happened.

I wish to express my disagreement with this post and explain why i feel so.

The problem Shaco has, and had even before his rework, is the fact that his powerbudget is completely skrewed, and this is caused by him essentially having no meaningful counterplay or skill expression.

Normally the more counterplay a champion has the greater the power they can afford to pump into their kits, a good example here would be ,,,,,perhaps Sion , Darius or a highly skillshot reliant mage like Velkoz or Lux i suppose.

Champions that have to fulfill some manner of conditions for them do succeed and do what they want to do, which is generally damage, but the budget can also be spent on other things like defensive tools or other stuff like utility, mobility, CC or something else like Zyra W for instance.

And that is what Shaco lacks, he has no real conditions for his damage and i´ll break it down as simply as i can.

Passive is a damage boost on a auto when attacking from behind on a 3 seconds cooldown. Q is a blink that makes him go invisible for a few seconds once maxed, also damage booster.

W is like a Zyra plant with shorter range, more health and hard CC as well as the ability to act like a trap by being invisible and only appearing to hit someone passing by.

E has a passive and active, the passive is that his autos slow targets while the active is on cooldown, the active is a targeted ranged skill that applies a slow and does damage which scales of missing enemy health.

R makes him vanish for a second before he and a identical clone appears at the spot, the clone does reduced damage but it can explode upon death doing some damage and leaving behind 3 boxes that share a healthpool.

Shaco is a jungler, so his main way of dealing damage and ganking is to Q towards his enemy from a place they cant see, run up behind them while invisible and start stabbing them+ throwing down a box and his E to stop them from running while avoiding any retaliation with his R if needed.

This basically gives the enemy no chance to react to him, no way to even avoid or reduce his damage once he appears and one cant even turn on him. Too many of these good tools combined with front loaded unavoidable damage results in, as mentioned, a poor powerbudget.

As poor as a medieval countryside church mice basically

He pays the price by having barely any base damage, barely any invisibility at earlier ranks and his R is pretty lame too. However he still cant be buffed because if these tools arent terrible and if he has the base damage then he quickly becomes the lord murder clown of the rift that almost no one can do anything about and no carry can escape from him.

I recall people hating him as much as they did Teemo back in season 3 because of this kind of stuff.

This is why in my opinion he cannot get anything but very minor buffs, and why he needs a VGU, he needs to have counterplay added in for a better powerbudget, he needs a more focused and coherent identity+kit benefiting of a assassin rather than this pretty random mess he has and finally he needs a visual update.

TL;DR

A champions powerbudget for theit kit is decided by how much counterplay they have, Shaco basically has little to none combined with too many good tools which ends up completely screwing his power economy over becoming dirt poor and destitute. He needs a VGU to fix this .....and he also needs new visuals, a fancy new look rarely goes wrong.

Feel free to vote in the poll and comment if so desired.

Thanks for reading!

40 Comments

Gone Away4/8/2019, 10:45:00 PM6 votes

Shaco is definitely in a poor spot.

Especially when you compare him with other assassins (Rengar, Eve, Kha, Panth)

He can't effectively gank lanes until level 5 (when he has 3 points in his Q).

Between those levels (level 1-5) Shaco is one of the weakest duelists. If he runs into the enemy jungler, he cannot duel them. He will lose.

Even when Shaco gets "ahead" he still cannot really win duels. He virtually has 0 scaling and relies on items. A typical Shaco builds Duskblade>Tiamat>Trinity force.

Once a Shaco commits to a fight he has 0 tools to get out. More than likely he will take ignite which means when he goes for a kill chances are he's going to be killed .

Last, Shaco has been effectively inadvertently nerfed like 5 patches in a row.

Tiamat Nerf,

Ignite Nerf,

Jungle XP nerf (especially harder on Shaco since he does not upgrade jungle item).

Duskblade nerf

and Scuttle.

Other assassins have tools that help them go in, burst someone down and get out.

Kha has double invis/leap reset, Eve has her ult, Rengar has leap/w cleanse. Shaco has nothing.

Skarekroww4/22/2019, 11:23:26 PM2 votes

Sorry if this is wonky to read im scatter brained and shaco really does need a buff. You have to remember tho, shaco's damage is front loaded and every other assassin can escape after a one shot. Fizz get's a troll pole, Evelynn has ult, Ahri 3 uses of her ult, Rengar his W is a cleanse and speed boost, Zed his w, Akali is Akali

Here's two scenarios that often happen to me. (This is more when i played shaco a lot in S6) When my enemy team isn't feeling like being iron they wards key places and pink in critical area (like death bush). Depending on if they watch their mini-map depends if they lived, died, or burned something.

Let's say it's mid game, you have no tanks on your team, you're the closest thing to an engage you have. You have to kill a target in your initiation or lose the fight. So you jump in the Soraka (really any ap champion) in the far back of her team and has no friends for the 3 seconds it'd take to kill her. Q over a wall so they don't know as soon as you hit her her silence and item 3157. Grats you're not all alone with nothing to show for it as the enemy team spreads them booty cheeks. So you die lose the fight and win nothing.

If they wanted to balance shaco, they didn't need to change the champion honestly his slow isn't really noticeable on his two-shiv poison (E), and all the planning he can do with the boxes can get negated by an item 3364 or item 2055 or really anyone that hits it with an ability, they have low health bars late game and often die in one or two shots. Nerfing items would do riot better than turning him into Evelynn or even changing stealth back to what is was would be better...or items to counter stealth.

lowrankhero4/8/2019, 9:31:31 PM2 votes

Hes tier 1 on the vgu list, but prolly liw tier 1 compared to like pantheon and voli

GrãñðmãstêrShãçø4/23/2019, 8:05:26 AM2 votes

Hmmm, I really do wonder why the best Shaco players in the world are saying that he is not unplayable just that he is in a bad spot, I wonder why don't you say that Khazix doesn't have counterplay, let me demonstrate: Khazix R into Q into E/R into Q into E, now mind you Khazix s Q does more damage then an entire Shaco combo, he has also an escape which Shaco does not.

Let us take a look at someone else if you are not satisfied with this, for example Evelynn , PERMANENT INVISIBILITY at level 6, just E to oneshot an ADC and SMASH THAT R BUTTON TO GET AWAY.Wow she totally outplayed me, now mind you Shaco can be noticed by normal wards and control wards, to notice Evelynn you MUST buy item 2055 .

BUT BUT OP SHACO 1SHOTS WHEN HE IS AHEAD BY 1 CS BOOOHOOO - Jhin 2k19

Ever heard of deep warding Ever heard of NTabi that completely kill Shaco Ever heard of buying item 3364

Mate shut up, you don't know a jack thing about this champion, spend your time asking for a nerf to other assasins.

VoraciousX4/23/2019, 8:02:28 AM1 votes

Honestly if he does get a VGU I hope he gets more play on the boxes. Also I disagree with the idea that there's "no counterplay to Shaco". You can see him. There's a puff of smoke when he stealths, and if you mind game him, he can't get the back attack in time. If he ults, you can find out which one is Shaco by seeing which one takes less damage. In addition to this, Shaco doesn't usually just SAVE his ult for an escape. Generally he cannot kill anyone WITHOUT his ult, unless he's super ahead. Shaco's real problem is that he's basically a melee Ezreal. He abuses on-hits too well and LIKE EZREAL, this synergy needs to be removed in order for him to have any actual REAL power of his own(except Ezreal actually does have a lot of power on his own). Any time a certain on-hit item is powerful, Shaco will abuse it. This is why when Duskblade was too strong, Shaco was dominating.

If Shaco does get a VGU though, I'd much more like them to focus on outplay potential rather than one shot potential. His box play is probably the most fun part of his kit, and I don't understand what's so fun about his AD build, as it's literally just auto attacks. He's a demon jester, he should be using more trickery.

NoobLearninGame4/8/2019, 11:59:59 PM1 votes

A lore buff would be nice.. they could just revert it so he's not a puppet anymore. Even though he never got new additions to lore prior (and hasn't since the puppet change afaik), I was happier with the old lore.. and his new walking animation is a little too goofy for me (supposed to give a puppet feel I'd assume).

As for an in-game buff, his boxes (W) should not activate when revealed (they'd still be able to fear/attack you if you get too close, instead of the fear being wasted and the 5 second duration of its damage potential too). Someone else suggested in another topic lowering their activation range when revealed so melee characters with as low as 125 AA range can destroy them without using abilities, like Teemo shrooms.

As it is now a free level 1 item can clear a minefield of them during the 10 second duration without attacking, using Oracle Lens. Control Wards also work similarly for denying his boxes. Against someone who knows this, Shaco basically doesn't have a W.

This would mostly be a buff for AP Shaco (buffing the W), which is already comparatively weak (compared with AD Shaco). It would benefit AD Shaco too, but AP gets a lot more out of it because of box duration increasing (time they can remain stealthed before dying without being used), and damage.

While they're at it, give the E adaptive damage so AP Shaco isn't doing physical damage (even though it also scales with AP).. unless AP Shaco likes having mixed damage. Chances are though they'd rather have it deal magic damage, since if their whole team goes AD for example, Shaco's E would be a whole lot more useful being adaptive damage, so that the enemies aren't building defensive items (armor in this case) that counter his E in its current state.

LonelyDazab4/23/2019, 11:44:14 PM1 votes

That he has no counter play is far from the truth. Mainly tank supports (especially with hard cc) like Braum or Taric . If you are endangered as a squishy target you can buy item 3047 , item 3026 , item 3157 , item 3364 or even this item 3905 (or just any tank/armor item). If you still get picked up easely you either fed him or you are completely out of posission. He just punishes miss play pritty hard (if played well). I think he needs compensation buffs for all the inderect nerfs he recived. Most people don't know how too play against Shaco (bec no one plays him) and than get complitely demolished by a 1 trick. SO if he really gets viable again people would learn to play against him. If you think the warding against him is a problem bec of his stealth just look at a shaco guide and look at the gank paths (here q-spell analysis), then you should know how to ward.

PS: you mentioned 2 more counters against shaco in your post Teemo : His blind and his shroomes will make it very hard for shaco Darius : his passive will show a silhouette of him, like his q