Why would you keep the Evelynn nerf?

Kıng Boo··70 votes·2,943 views

Evelynn as we know it, hasn't been doing very well in the balance department. She's incredibly underwhelming now; to the point where people barely even use her anymore. And Riot decides it's time to nerf her again for the umpteenth time? Forty mana cost may not seem like too much for an ability to other champions, but with Evelynn's incredibly small mana pool early on, and with her relying on Q to clear jungle camps...she won't be able to use W as much, if at all, to get to jungle camps and lanes. Not only will this slow down Evelynn's clear time, this will also reduce her effectiveness in travelling to lanes and escaping, her niche.

You have stated Evelynn's niche before; constantly applying pressure to lanes. Now with this W nerf, all she has is her invisibility (which might I add; with the new ward trick being found, is very underwhelming now as well, in some cases at least.) As long as the enemy laners are smart enough, they'll know where to ward, how, and when to back off. There's been dozens of threads explaining why you shouldn't do this, but you've never taken an in depth look at them.

Sure, Runeglaive helps her a lot. But most of the time, you're going to run Warrior's anyway. Warrior provides Attack Damage, Cooldown Reduction, and Armor Penetration, all stats that Evelynn values immensely. Not to mention with an AD oriented build, she'll be able to get other smites aside from Trailblazer, and instead go for Stalker's Blade or maybe even Skirmisher's Sabre, which can increase her duel potential even more.

In reality Riot; at this point it feels like you just don't want to deal with Evelynn anymore, so you're steadily nerfing her to the ground until she's unplayable.

49 Comments

TurquoiseYoshi13 votes

Hey guys did you hear that Evelynn was nerfed? Yeah I had no idea from the approximate 10000 posts on the subject.

Remlap12231 votes

Apparently Vayne, Lux, and Veigar are as well. I can't recall where I've seen this.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

I see a lot of qq threads too but they're all right and getting Riot to hear anybody requires like, the entire front page to be completely spammed with the same thread. I can't blame Riot though.

For Carthage3 votes

I mean, you could blame Riot, but they still wouldn't care, so might as well not.

Kıng Boo5 votes

If you are unfamiliar as to what the 'Ward Trick' is; you basically place a Vision Ward (The one that shows stealthed units) against a wall or other location, and a Stealth ward at a distance from it. This combo boosts the Vision Ward's range, allowing it to detect units further. However; Evelynn doesn't have 'True Stealth' like other champions, (who aren't revealed via being nearby), which means the vision ward will still see her. This is an enormously bad thing for her, because she won't be able to gank at all. This mechanic does not reveal ANY other stealthed units too, just Evelynn.

darkintruder5 votes

While i agree with you, and i'm proud that Evelynn is one of my go to champions to go in the jungle and the one i learned how to play jungle to begin with (1350 IP, ez life), Evelynn always will need to be under control. She can gank from whatever side you want, and I didn't know this trick, but I can assure you 5 vision wards doesn't even help vs an experienced Evelynn player, specially at higher ranks. There are lanes you can gank through lane, like a Thresh/Ashe bot lane and just blow up whoever gets caught. I don't like this nerf at all, seems unecessary considering Evelynn is in a balanced state, but yeah, Evelynn should be in the eyes of the balance team, always.

HaIlMonitor4 votes

You know I get why there is so much QQ over freelo champions but come on. She has been bombarded with nerfs and still manages to find tons of play in pro play [meaning the champion goes from shit tier to god tier in one day in soloque - see Viegar]. Also this patch all they did was add a 40 mana cost to her Movement speed buff which almost every champion has to pay mana to gain their dash or movement speed. They just want to slow down her clears probably. It isn't like those 5 seconds slower you clear will make or break the champion.

Mistikal6 votes

Her clears are pretty awful as it is. any competent enemy jungler is going to invade an evelyns jungle early game and hope to find her getting murdered by a camp and smash her. worst case scenario - take her jungle while she isnt there and put her behind even more.

HaIlMonitor1 votes

I invade pretty much all junglers but Shaco on any champion I feel competent on. I have stolen Enemy red buffs more times then I can count and guess what? They always fall behind no mater if they are Master yi, Lee sin, or Eve.

Mistikal1 votes

well yeah, but im just saying it's a bit easier to invade an evelyn. her clears arent exactly safe early game, especially at lower elos where people dont know how to kite the jungle camps well enough to keep their her health up

LeeDark1 votes

The difference is that junglers like Lee Sin and Shyvana can catch you doing that and fight you, and you might just lose that fight. Junglers like Nunu don't care, because they are at your red buff while you are at theirs.

Eve, on the other hand, just has to go, "Well, fuck..." and hope you don't also guess where she ganks first. She's already going to have trouble with that gank without red, and if you counter, she's completely fucked for the rest of the game. Making it EASIER to invade her jungle and steal red was an absolutely unnecessary nerf.

Aazzlano14 votes

{quoted}

You know I get why there is so much QQ over freelo champions but come on. She has been bombarded with nerfs and still manages to find tons of play in pro play [meaning the champion goes from shit tier to god tier in one day in soloque - see Viegar]. Also this patch all they did was add a 40 mana cost to her Movement speed buff which almost every champion has to pay mana to gain their dash or movement speed. They just want to slow down her clears probably. It isn't like those 5 seconds slower you clear will make or break the champion.

Actually it does. It means you CANNOT use it to travel between camps anymore, meaning her jungle clear is far slower, meaning she will have less exp/gold, meaning she will be statistically even weaker than she is now. You really underestimate how bad her mana is, and this is forcing her even more to get Runeglaive. I mean yeah let's gut her assassination potential because of DFG, remove DFG and then nerf her even more, then make her only function as a meat wall with her ult, but then force her to get Runeglaive to sustain mana.

like what in the world? And she can use her W 2-3 times or more per fight, and it is going to absolutely destroy her mana pool. Godbless if she buys any kind of CDR because that ruins her mana even more.

This is a horrible nerf and even though "mana costs aren't a nerf" this is going to severely limit her in many situations and is going to result in her being unable to get a kill or escape many times per game and is going to make her EVEN WEAKER statistically from that too.

Time to pick a new main

HaIlMonitor3 votes

I would like to see the difference in clears before this becomes a "major" nerf. Seeing as most of used junglers dont have or dont take there gap closers early. (Vi usually takes at 3 which means she is almost done with her first clear and about to gank). Also ironically because she gets to camps slower she will regen more health making her clears easier lol.

IcyPepper4 votes

Also ironically because she gets to camps slower she will regen more health making her clears easier lol.

And her clears slower.

Meaning people are going to get xp faster than her, and she provides less pressure if she can't get around as fast :V

I'm not buying that. If I wanted to clear better by using my health regen, I'd just stand at a camp and do nothing. Which few people do, because junglers hate wasting time.

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

How was she before runeglaive

facemelter7101 votes

Bad

LeeDark1 votes

No, clear speed is one of the MOST important aspects of a jungler. You could arrange every champion by their clear speed ALONE and have a pretty decent jungler tier list. A few select champions would move up or down that list based on their pressure, teamfighting, or utility, but mostly, the list wouldn't change that much. The people at the bottom of the list would be non-viable, and the champs in the top ten might shift, but they'd all stay in the top ten.

Llanite3 votes

No one wants to play with or against her. You can safely assume that everytime she regains popularity due to item changes, nerf is only the way.

PiVoRx3 votes

As long as she has this passive she deserve nerfs, or other way, as long as we have no effective way to deal with invisibility. Evelyn makes whole purpose of warding pointless and often confusing (you think you are safe around your net of green wards but actually you are not).

3tyson2 votes

Eve could buy late boots and early dmg to make up for her bad clears

she could freely stil get everywhere fast because her w didnt kost annything

now u should only use w whem u rlly need it...

Adrian Umbra1 votes

And now she loses a lot of her mobility, her early damage, and/or her mana pool . Yes, this is totally balanced considering that she wasn't really overwhelming as is. On top of that, this hits her hard lategame, when she struggles with running Oom anyway in skirmishes and teamfights. Thanks, Rito.

3tyson1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Adrian Umbra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sX83NE14,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-10-14T14:37:11.437+0000)

And now she loses a lot of her mobility, her early damage, and/or her mana pool . Yes, this is totally balanced considering that she wasn't really overwhelming as is. On top of that, this hits her hard lategame, when she struggles with running Oom anyway in skirmishes and teamfights. Thanks, Rito.

eves like a bad shaco in order for her to shine she really needs that 4-0 in the first 12 min

Adrian Umbra1 votes

Exactly. And damaging her ability to get that 4-0 in the first 12 minutes while simultaneously hitting her lategame is just a little bit harsh. Especially given that there are several other champions who are much bigger problems for balance at the moment.

When you're comparing a champion to Shaco, a relatively underwhelming assassin who only rarely sees play, you've got issues.

3tyson1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Adrian Umbra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sX83NE14,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-14T14:45:55.548+0000)

Exactly. And damaging her ability to get that 4-0 in the first 12 minutes while simultaneously hitting her lategame is just a little bit harsh. Especially given that there are several other champions who are much bigger problems for balance at the moment.

When you're comparing a champion to Shaco, a relatively underwhelming assassin who only rarely sees play, you've got issues.

i know there different

but they both need that ridiclouse early game in order to stay relevant and their both supose to get these kills from enemys that are not respeting the jungler

Skia Asteri1 votes

{quoted}

Eve could buy late boots and early dmg to make up for her bad clears

she could freely stil get everywhere fast because her w didnt kost annything

now u should only use w whem u rlly need it...

And give her less reasons to break stealth. Her W already had the cost of disabling her passive.

3tyson1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Skia Asteri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sX83NE14,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2015-10-14T17:57:42.583+0000)

And give her less reasons to break stealth. Her W already had the cost of disabling her passive.

yep she had no mana problems cause she regen when stealted

Skia Asteri1 votes

{quoted}

yep she had no mana problems cause she regen when stealted

Before the nerf to the passive mana regen at the start of the season maybe, since then it has been pretty garbage. Because the amount it gives is insignificant unless you are so low it would be faster to recall even with the passive.

3tyson1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Skia Asteri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sX83NE14,comment-id=0004000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-14T20:24:37.171+0000)

Before the nerf to the passive mana regen at the start of the season maybe, since then it has been pretty garbage. Because the amount it gives is insignificant unless you are so low it would be faster to recall even with the passive.

yeh i ment before the nervs their ruining a perfectly cool champ one of my favorites actualy i really love the sneaky sneaky stealth champs i even play twitch jungle

fééd l0rd2 votes

A good eveleyn will never run warrior. NEVER. period.

SelflessTeammate1 votes

I get what you mean completely, because I definitely prefer Eve with the classic Rylai's + Liandry's combo all the way, but at the same time, it's possible to swap to Warrior's. I can respect an Evelynn that can legitimately make that work. If there is a way, I don't know how, but people have told me it can work very well.

At the same time...Gosh damn it, how do you justify not going Rylai's + Liandry's? How? She loses her squishiness, her damage goes through the roof, she can easily handle tanks, erase or very-near-erase isolated individuals, hit-and-run better than any Shaco player could dream of...Yeah, I dunno, but some people swear by it.

Honestly, I still would just prefer the tried-and-true Runeglaive + Rylai's + Liandry's. Warrior's, just...I mean, I can't grasp it in my head how that could ever possibly be a better idea, under any circumstances.

fééd l0rd1 votes

I think they have some buffs for warrior enchantment in their minds. thats why they are nerfing evelyn a bit so she wont ever use something else than runeglaive (which is pretty balanced).

alfavhunter2 votes

Is it common to lvl her mobility last?

Why not make it cost 40/30/20/10/0 if this is the case

Cuts her early mobility while keeping her late game power (which will be weaker on average due to weaker early game mobility)

Dominick Destine2 votes

I've been playing Evelynn since S1 (First account Ssraeshza for S1/S2) and I have played hundreds of Evelynn games this very season with thousands of matches for post-rework Evelynn. This is a terrible nerf... they are punishing Evelynn for using a RESET SKILL that is meant to reward proper use. At this point I would much prefer the passive W she had (Increase movement speed per spell landed on an enemy champion) with a worse active than the current monstrosity they have give her.

I do not understand why Evelynn is getting gradually gutted. Lee Sin / Ekko / Rengar are far more popular and powerful.... what is the purpose of gutting Evelynn? there are freelo champions that exist, Evelynn is NOT one of them. Evelynn is extremely risky to play and requires very experienced players to get a good performance... thanks a lot Riot, I guess I will have to switch junglers now, after 5 years of playing Evelynn.

BeMyFriendPlease1 votes

LeeSin

She started being better at counter jungling, you do the math

Mistikal1 votes

Ehh, she was always pretty good at counter jungling to be fair. unless its an enemy lee sin who just reveals you all day.

Kıng Boo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=King KSer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sX83NE14,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-10-14T02:53:20.577+0000)

Ehh, she was always pretty good at counter jungling to be fair. unless its an enemy lee sin who just reveals you all day.

Wanted to keep her out of your jungle? Smiting wolves does that for you; another way you can easily make her useless.

Kingopants1 votes

Shes just not fun at all to play against and was actually gaining some popularity, of course they were going to nerf her.

Hayaishi21 votes

She's frustrating to play against, so she gets nerfed until she gets reworked.

Aezanthya1 votes

At this point I just want them to rework her and get rid of the stealth. Harrowing would've been a perfect time to do it. They could have turned her into a succubus or a demon of some kind.

CppL1 votes

mb they planing a new rework on her ,and now just olafing her for some reason.I dunno :/

xFrostKnightx1 votes

** Riot**: Kassadin is too mobile

Welcome to the re-work release, Kassa-summoner 3

Riot: We're releasing a bunch of high mobility champions with short CD's :D summoner 6 summoner 4

Riot: We're nerfing Evelyn, forcing her into the ap Jungle item otherwise she'll have 0 mana. #InvisibilityStronk

Riot: Oh, btw upcoming champions has invisibility which is a toggle, drains mana per second but does not cancel when attacking.

Ipols1 votes

She's incredibly underwhelming now; to the point where people barely even use her anymore

stopped reading here since you make up facts just to prove your point.

Lyless1 votes

{quoted}

stopped reading here since you make up facts just to prove your point.

No, I have seen her in action then and now. It's clear she was nerfed and she's somewhat out of balance.

Ipols1 votes

Read what you wrote! People keep using her and if you follow Pants are Dragon and Oddone (2 high tier junglers, expecially pants), you'd know she's still in the top 5 Junglers for soloQ, but people just like complaining since having both runeglaive and a passive for the mana sustain isn't enough, they want free spells too

SelflessTeammate1 votes

scratches head You know...I mean, I don't know about any of you Evelynn players out there, but as one, I can tell you I spend exceptionally little time farming monsters. Evelynn doesn't really need it, she's ready-to-gank at level 3 without too much trouble. She doesn't exactly rely on smite bonuses or anything like that, so she really just relies on how ignorant her opponents are.

So, really, the exact same thing as Shaco. Who, for reasons that escape me, doesn't seem to be even a part of the conversation, despite feeling way, way more oppressive to me. I mean, especially if you're jungling, because you can sure as hell expect him to at least try for red buff, and you might be able to fend him off it, but...He's just gonna come back later. He knows it, you know it, and he's still going to wait for you all freaking day, and then saunter off to his lane of choice and murder it.

Then you're terribly behind as a jungler because he counter-jungles before killing your laners, and your laners get angry at you for being behind, and of course they didn't pink ward because it's a mind-blowing 100 gold and they're only 3,000 away from Infinity Edge, and...deep inhale...exhale. But Shaco's okay, and Evelynn isn't, even though a good Shaco is a solo queue nightmare from hell.

Olath Quortek1 votes

Sounds to me like they're pushing her away from warriors by making her more dependent on mana from Runeglaive... Not that I know anything about Eve at all... Just a thought based on what you said about Warrior's...

BroLane1 votes

{quoted}

Evelynn as we know it, hasn't been doing very well in the balance department. She's incredibly underwhelming now; to the point where people barely even use her anymore. And Riot decides it's time to nerf her again for the umpteenth time? Forty mana cost may not seem like too much for an ability to other champions, but with Evelynn's incredibly small mana pool early on, and with her relying on Q to clear jungle camps...she won't be able to use W as much, if at all, to get to jungle camps and lanes. Not only will this slow down Evelynn's clear time, this will also reduce her effectiveness in travelling to lanes and escaping, her niche.

You have stated Evelynn's niche before; constantly applying pressure to lanes. Now with this W nerf, all she has is her invisibility (which might I add; with the new ward trick being found, is very underwhelming now as well, in some cases at least.) As long as the enemy laners are smart enough, they'll know where to ward, how, and when to back off. There's been dozens of threads explaining why you shouldn't do this, but you've never taken an in depth look at them.

Sure, Runeglaive helps her a lot. But most of the time, you're going to run Warrior's anyway. Warrior provides Attack Damage, Cooldown Reduction, and Armor Penetration, all stats that Evelynn values immensely. Not to mention with an AD oriented build, she'll be able to get other smites aside from Trailblazer, and instead go for Stalker's Blade or maybe even Skirmisher's Sabre, which can increase her duel potential even more.

In reality Riot; at this point it feels like you just don't want to deal with Evelynn anymore, so you're steadily nerfing her to the ground until she's unplayable.

again

For Carthage1 votes

Honestly, I'd rather like a 10 mana increase on her Q over 40 on her W...

Yonsi1 votes

You say most people run warrior but a quick look at pro builds and champion.gg immediately disproves that statement. Evelynn almost always goes runeglaive. Ever since runeglaive, she's had little to no mana problems. She got a free 200 mana and mana back on her clears but of course no one wants to mention that. You don't even need trailblazer as long as you smite Krugs which help her hp in clearing significantly (which you can do btw since you don't need to smite wraiths). She'll be the exact same early game as she was before the nerf and if she ever needs mana can just run around invisible as any experienced eve player has been doing. The only thing that I can see this hurting is that if she's going off in a teamfight and getting resets, she might run oom as a result but aside from that this change is a slap on the wrist. Typical reaction from the boards to any kind of nerf and it won't be long before everyone sees that very little has changed.

More from Gameplay

More by Kıng Boo