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@Statikk : Evelynn's state is confusing

DemiluniS·3/25/2015, 2:26:40 PM·6 votes·1,604 views

I would really like to hear your thoughts about eve's current state and what direction you aiming for.

Eve used to be my favorite champion for a long time, but now I simply can't play her anymore, there's nothing other than frustration.

Let's start from the beginning. After eve's rework she went a whole cycle from being ap assasin>ap jungler>ad jungler>tank jungler>???. Somewhere during this time frame you messed up, and left her completely without identity or specific role, she just a shadow of her former self, and it seems like you, the designers, don't really know what direction to go with her.

In the latest patch she received some changes to her W and passive that were aimed at making her play pattern more of a "hit and run" yet you nerfed her ability to chase down opponents, and it left me thinking, is she supposed to be just an annoyance factor in the game, or a well designed stealth assasin.

Let's break down, what bothers me about eve's current state :

I don't understand at what phase of the game she supposed to be powerful. at S4 she was a powerful early game jungler that snowballed the game and all of the sudden people started building her ap, and suddenly she's a late game powerhouse?!
eve is a champion without hard cc, yet her damage is so mediocre that she can barely clear jungle camps throughout early-mid game, and doesn't have enough damage on her own to be a threat early game, it's only up to you allies to deal enough damage and you kinda help them with your presence.
eve is absolutely horrible at dueling, unless she's extremely ahead. If she's an "assasin" why she can't 1v1 properly?
her ultimate doesn't fit her completely, and doesn't fit her "hit and run " pattern either
most of her nerfs happened because of her synergy with items like DFG and spirit stone. The items are long gone, yet eve didn't receive any compensation buffs.
she simply doesn't feel rewarding to play, and it takes too much effort to get her to the power level of other junglers.

I would really like to hear opinions and maybe get some attention from the balance team. I simply want to play eve and enjoy her, because currently she just feels awkward.

39 Comments

logique3/25/2015, 3:47:27 PM4 votes

I don't get what I'm to do with eve either, I'm tired of trying to figure her out. Riot keeps emphasising how powerful her ganks are but that's bull - as a jungler she is behind in xp and doens't have the kit to 1v1, she absolutely relies on her teamates to bring the dmg and cc. Compare to J4, Vi, or Fiddlesticks, I'll take their actually strong ganks over eve's "surprise" factor.

God forbid you don't get fed early game, good luck getting gold to buy those expensive tank and dps items. Of all the junglers I play she is the only one I keep spamming pots well past mid game just to get through the jungle - not even fighting.

I dont even get what the new changes do to help her? Dart in and out of fights? Why would she be doing that late game? If she's darting out, what spells is she casting to get the w cooldown back up? She sucks early game, I've built her full tank a few times and she hardly does the job of tanking outside of her ult. Either I still die or I'm left standing with no dps to do anything. This isnt fun.

Poptart Evelynn3/25/2015, 2:57:10 PM3 votes

Her AD Build is still effective at the moment. You don't build directly in this order but here it is.

item 3723 item 1001 item 3153 item 3078 item 3143 then item 3156 or item 3102 . item 3111 or item 3047

Though I do agree she is in a shit state at the moment in terms of identity.

Adrian Umbra3/25/2015, 4:02:41 PM2 votes

Eve's had an identity crisis ever since she was kicked out of midlane, worsening as Riot hit her E (change to physical), early game presence, and finally the new jungle kicking her butt. She's still a decently strong ganker early because of her passive, but with the jungle hurting her as much as it does, she's pretty much forced into Trailblazer and pretty much any other jungler who shows up during a countergank will turn the tables and kill her and her laner.

She's stuck with two major damage abilities (face it, her ult does pretty weak damage), which deal opposite kinds of damage (restricting her from penetration builds), she's got no CC outside her ultimate (which has an outrageous cooldown early on), her offensive builds are expensive (requiring her to snowball), and she just doesn't play like an assassin anymore, building durability over damage in most builds. Little "buffs" like Riot keeps tossing her way just aren't doing anything, especially when there are often significant drawbacks to the help. With the introduction of the mandrake ward, Riot might be a little less paranoid about buffing her, but considering the "compensation" Veigar and Morde got for losing DFG, I'm a little scared for the identity of one of my favorite champions.

LongHair Fox3/25/2015, 2:52:22 PM2 votes

I have found some succes witht the current evelynn with magus and a big ticket offensive item and the tank for the rest. But yeah currently she is in a very bad place and unless teamfights suddenly begin taking very long I doubt the current changes do that much. But imaging if she entered stealth again after 1 second at max level and her ult got changed to an execute. That might suddenly make her op. For now I think riot is pulling her in an interesting direction but I feel that she needs some slight buffs overall whereas this is more or less just a change with neither buffs nor nerfs overall.

Bears Dont Care3/25/2015, 4:17:32 PM1 votes

Unfortunately it seems like this was more of a nerf than a buff. Reduced stealth timer doesn't help her in anyway becaus again, by the time you can attack you can be seen. She can't stick to a target as well anymore, and because her Q is sustained damage her ganking ability has suffered. I hope Riot reconsidered te W change because it doesn't help her at all.

HeraldOne3/25/2015, 4:18:13 PM1 votes

[deleted]

AngelSpite3/25/2015, 4:40:42 PM1 votes

That joke nerf on W. It has gutted her ganking power and escaping situations. Up vote the thread, not just commenting. With 29 comments and 3 up votes - you must be kidding.

Widder883/25/2015, 9:16:50 PM1 votes

{quoted} In the latest patch she received some changes to her W and passive that were aimed at making her play pattern more of a "hit and run" yet you nerfed her ability to chase down opponents, and it left me thinking, is she supposed to be just an annoyance factor in the game, or a well designed stealth assasin.

The W change made it easier to chase people as well as escaping from people. W is up almost everytime if you build CDR.

I don't understand at what phase of the game she supposed to be powerful. at S4 she was a powerful early game jungler that snowballed the game and all of the sudden people started building her ap, and suddenly she's a late game powerhouse?!

I think she is supposed to be powerful in the late game.

eve is absolutely horrible at dueling, unless she's extremely ahead. If she's an "assasin" why she can't 1v1 properly?

Evelynn as an assasin is not good at dueling bruisers/tanks, but good in assasinating squshys.

most of her nerfs happened because of her synergy with items like DFG and spirit stone. The items are long gone, yet eve didn't receive any compensation buffs.

I'm happy that she didn't got Veigar type of compensation buffs. The synergy with DFG was nerfed on purpose, but the sysnergy with Rabadons wasn't hurt that much, and even buffed several times.

The sad thing about Eve is not that she is weak (she is strong), but 95% of the people have no idea what items are good for her and how to play her.

Nameless Voice3/25/2015, 10:04:33 PM1 votes

As a long-time Eve player who hasn't played her recently because she just wasn't viable, I'm really glad for patch 5.5 I can play my favourite champion in the jungle again and actually do well.

However, most of your points ring true.

She does have sub-par damage for an assassin, though it's not really that bad once she gets items, and early-game she can use her stealth to set up unfair fights. The real problem with her damage is in the jungle. Spamming Q costs a lot of mana and doesn't do that great damage, while she is extremely squishy and has no form of sustain. She's the only jungler where you are forced to buy healing potions throughout the entire game just to survive in the jungle, especially if you play her as an AP assassin, as I do. Another thing is that the semi-recent "buff" to her E, allowing it to proc on-hit effects, means that she can't buy spellvamp any more, as it doesn't apply to abilities that apply on-hit effects (correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem to heal her with spell vamp any more.) - plus, spell vamp is much harder to get with S5's jungle items. I think that in the current jungle, she really needs some sustain in her kit. Maybe some built-in on-hit healing, or increased health regeneration while stealthed?

As you said, her E was changed to physical damage because of DFG. Now that the item no longer exists, they really need to switch her E back to magic damage, so that she can benefit properly from penetration items again.

I actually think her ult is okay. I'd prefer it to do % max health instead of % current health (I've never been much of a fan of % current health damage on anything), but I do feel that the shield is rather useful in her kit, to survive enemy burst if they focus her while she's diving in. That shield isn't as useful on tank builds, but it's great for helping you survive when you building a squishy assassin build.

In summary:

Her E should deal magic damage again now that DFG is gone
She could really do with some sustain in her kit. Maybe passive healing on hit or on spell cast, or vastly increased health regeneration along with the mana regeneration while stealthed.

Linna Excel3/25/2015, 2:54:02 PM1 votes

One thing I want to say is that if riot wants Evelynn to be a jack of all trades (ap/ad/tank) I wish they'd just come out and say it. Recently people were getting used to her being a chaser with her W but now that's gone. So she was just getting an identity after her last tweak and it's gone.

Again.

This is why I think riot has no vision for her ATM. It's like they keep changing her role in the game, with the only criteria is that is not her current role. From Ironstylus I've heard they don't know jack about what they want her lore to be or what they want her to look like exactly. So I think it's safe to assume at riot Evelynn's current state is complete confusion. Part of me is wondering if her role keeps changing because someone different works on her each time and not know what role she is supposed to have, the new guy just tweaks her for whatever he likes.

I don't understand at what phase of the game she supposed to be powerful. at S4 she was a powerful early game jungler that snowballed the game and all of the sudden people started building her ap, and suddenly she's a late game powerhouse?!

One of the tweaks she got last year was that her ratios got better as she leveled her skills, leading me to think they wanted her to be a hypercarry because they don't like her being strong early because of her passive. But she never really turned into a hypercarry. I think the tank thing was done by the players because she's too squishy and too weak to kill someone right off. In other words she's not an assassin right now and she's not really designed to do anything else either.

eve is a champion without hard cc, yet her damage is so mediocre that she can barely clear jungle camps throughout early-mid game, and doesn't have enough damage on her own to be a threat early game, it's only up to you allies to deal enough damage and you kinda help them with your presence.

No natural tank, no hard CC, weak base damages, etc. I don't think she's meant to jungle at this point but I don't know if she can survive mid anymore either. Her passive, while great at upper elos, is worthless as you get lower and map awareness and warding is minimal. However that passive is part of her core identity and she needs to be balanced for upper elos where it can get out of hand.

I honestly don't know what her real role in the game is at this point because it seems riot won't let her do anything.

eve is absolutely horrible at dueling, unless she's extremely ahead. If she's an "assasin" why she can't 1v1 properly?

With her Q she can duel melee champs well enough. Also assassins need to be able to delete squishy carries, not duel with tanks.

her ultimate doesn't fit her completely, and doesn't fit her "hit and run " pattern either

Agreed. It was better as a finisher but riot thought that was too OP. The shield and %current hp makes it feel like she's supposed to hard initiate, but she's not that type of champ. Again, this is one of those things that makes it clear that riot is clueless about her.

most of her nerfs happened because of her synergy with items like DFG and spirit stone. The items are long gone, yet eve didn't receive any compensation buffs.

I don't think riot wants Eve to be healthy ATM. Not until they can do a total rework on her anyways. My opinion is these current tweaks are because she needs something, but riot is trying to put off that full rework because they are busy screwing up Poppy.

she simply doesn't feel rewarding to play, and it takes too much effort to get her to the power level of other junglers.

Your mileage may vary with her. I think she's either a win hard or lose hard sort of champ... in other words she either snowballs hard or disappears completely from the game. However I think right now it's easier for her to disappear completely (be useless) than it is for her to snowball.

Oleandervine3/25/2015, 3:22:13 PM1 votes

Evelynn is what you call a hot mess. Her passive is probably the most debilitating thing about her kit that keeps Riot from actually giving her any sort of real power. I think she needs an overhaul and soon, because there's just no point in playing her in games anymore. I feel like Eve is the new Urgot, and until they scrap her and reinvent her, she'll continue to be scraping the barrel. Riot honestly should listen to the ideas of the fans. Its pretty simple and all they have to do is give credit and they can borrow ideas and probably put her in a better place because of it.

Saianna3/25/2015, 4:12:47 PM1 votes

DemiluniS I have qquesqtion to you. This part "Eve used to be my favorite champion for a long time". You mean you enjoyed her pre-rework (when stealth was an ability)?

Then few other things: "eve didn't receive any compensation buffs." From all i know "compensation buffs" are worse than most of nerfs, so please don't ask for that.

"I simply want to play eve and enjoy her, because currently she just feels awkward." For me Eve has died day after her rework. Everything about her i enjoyed got removed. Now she's nothing more than empty husk of her former glory.