Boards›Gameplay

2 Years ago someone posted this.

hitted·6/12/2017, 7:34:34 AM·191 votes·6,484 views

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/tudnEmGv-there-was-a-red-post-a-while-back

Said person made a point that goes like this:

I believe that currently, Riot's designers:

  • Often stonewall community feedback, leading to considerable frustration when nothing happens despite loud, continued, unanimous community feedback asking for a change.

This particular point I would like to focus on, because while Riot have improved in that aspect since then, there are times when I feel like they haven't.

Take LeBlanc for example, after the assassin update. LeBlanc's was a rework that apparently failed and the community, whether that is the champion's playerbase or not, pointed out the problems with the rework and they were made clear and apparent to Riot. Thus, they announced that they are looking into her once again.

So why is this not the case with Rengar? I understand that Rengar needed a Rework both Rengarmains and the community have been crying for a change since day one! We do not ask for a full revert, only that Riot addresses the issues that have arisen with the rework. The way Riot has handled the whole thing just outright disturbs me because this is not what I thought this company was all about! Listening to the playerbase has ALWAYS been their strong point, but when it comes to Rengar, all they have been doing is ignoring the community's cries and contradicting themselves!

  • Rengar will remain an assassin after the update.

Rengar is now a Diver according to RIot themselves and instead Noc and Diana are categorized as assassins.

  • Q: Nice meme!

They actually said that on the Rengar mains subreddit after countless times we told them how we prefer the old Q.

Sure Rengar is in a "stable-ish" spot at the moment according to Riot Stattik, but that is only because he has been completely gutted to the ground. Is this how Riot want to address the community? Is this really how they handle the problem? Don't misunderstand, the point of this post is not Rengar himself and how he should be changed but rather Riot's approach of the matter and overal handling of the situation.

Don't throw us under the bus Riot. It is not right to simply forsake a part of the community. Please reconsider.

Regards, hitted

76 Comments

Melledoneus6/12/2017, 9:06:05 AM49 votes

Communication would be much easier if we would all drop our stereotyping.

Riot stereotyping the community as anti-Rioter flamers and the community stereotyping Riot as the money-bags corporation who cares nothing for its players are both views that need to stop in order to recreate what we used to have between Riot and its players.

ZapMyHeart6/12/2017, 9:00:06 AM22 votes

Why do you think this?

Because the community basically gave Riot the green light to do so.

When Karma was reworked, the first of many, no one except her small playerbase vocally demanded for revert/changes because of how rushed/bad it was.

But the rest of the community didn't speak up.

Which gave Riot permission that they could do whatever they liked for reworks.

Because obviously players didn't care enough.

As Riot continues to rework your favorite champions, there is not going to be much reasoning they'll listen to.

Because we, as a community, already gave up our voices regarding that aspect a long time ago.

ModAcademy Kayn6/12/2017, 9:25:53 AM20 votes

Listening and bending over to every demand the community makes are two separate things. You also can't take one common variable from something (a rework being bad) and then apply what's happening with one to the other. You're ignoring every other variable and detail.

manbearswine6/12/2017, 10:50:44 AM17 votes

{quoted}

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/tudnEmGv-there-was-a-red-post-a-while-back

Said person made a point that goes like this:

  • Often stonewall community feedback, leading to considerable frustration when nothing happens despite loud, continued, unanimous community feedback asking for a change.

This particular point I would like to focus on, because while Riot have improved in that aspect since then, there are times when I feel like they haven't.

Take LeBlanc for example, after the assassin update. LeBlanc's was a rework that apparently failed and the community, whether that is the champion's playerbase or not, pointed out the problems with the rework and they were made clear and apparent to Riot. Thus, they announced that they are looking into her once again.

That's not true. Le blanc's rework failed le blanc players sure, but everyone else was happy to see her less, it didn't even matter why, she was so horrible to play against before that this was actually an improvement to most players once the nerfs hit.

So why is this not the case with Rengar? I understand that Rengar needed a Rework both Rengarmains and the community have been crying for a change since day one!

The not rengar player part of the community wasn't asking for a revert, it was asking for nerfs, and for the moronic cc immunity to go away.

We do not ask for a full revert, only that Riot addresses the issues that have arisen with the rework. The way Riot has handled the whole thing just outright disturbs me because this is not what I thought this company was all about! Listening to the playerbase has ALWAYS been their strong point, but when it comes to Rengar, all they have been doing is ignoring the community's cries and contradicting themselves!

You need to understand that the boards do not represent the community as a whole, simply because of the amount of circlejerks going on here, the majority of players are happy to see rengar less, same as le blanc, and they don't really care why.

Both le blanc's and rengar's reworks aren't a complete failure like you try to make it out to be, they have mixed results, the ones who enjoyed them before don't like them, and pretty much everyone else sees them as an improvement.

Starcraft243ver6/12/2017, 8:47:49 AM11 votes

Listening to the playerbase has ALWAYS been their strong point

They stopped doing it after the terrible skarner rework they did just by listening to the player base. And that's great that they stopped.

Most people dont know what they really want, they have no clues about game design or balance and even when they know what they want, they dont know how to express their needs.

Nickssaa6/12/2017, 12:45:44 PM9 votes

The problem with Riot is that they are all mouth no ears. They talk a lot, and they explain what they are doing, showcasing new things, but they don't take feedback. I am ok with Riot being open to the community about things they are making, but at the end of the day, they ignore most of the feedback made by the community, and the whole thing becomes pointless. The only time they listen is when things get bad and they presumably get a playerbase drop.

Shahamut6/12/2017, 1:02:22 PM8 votes

I feel the same way about Skarner :-(

We all kind of had to suck it up when RIOT was like, "no more perma slow". We were a bit unhappy that they also removed his heal on his E, but the biggest problem is they gave no compensation. Eventually, though, RIOT heard us and gave Skarner a new passive and a perma speed buff on his q.

Then the juggernaut changes were announced... not a single Skarner main that I knew at the time liked these changes, and several of us predicted that the spires were going to be a nightmare. I specifically stated that they would have to be OP to be viable, and they would get needed. Sure enough, he hit a 65% win rate for like a day, and that was the end of that.

Since then, many Skarner players (I'll be honest, there aren't many of us) have been asking for changes or at least a revert until RIOT decides what they actually want him to be... been left with the spire garbage since then with ZERO responses since then :-(

Dextix LT6/12/2017, 9:56:44 AM7 votes

Listening to the playerbase has ALWAYS been their strong point,

When the hell was that? I still remember the DQ bullshit they pulled and the other failed reworks.

FighterA2366/12/2017, 11:53:14 AM5 votes

Honestly it doesn't seem that riot cares about the playerbase of the champions they rework. If they say that Leblanc and Rengar (which were champions of the assassins rework) are not assassins, then they indirectly admit they failed, and if they did so, they should revert the rework, or at least change them again, to a point that it is healthy for the gameplay.

Winterkill6/12/2017, 2:46:00 PM5 votes

They don't care. They still have not learned their lesson 4 years ago with Karma. Since then with mordekaiser the developers just keep making the same mistakes. Ricklessabandon reworking champions is a problem too.

For years Karma mains have been battling the same thing. They change a champions identity so much that it's no longer that champion.

Elikain6/12/2017, 11:45:17 PM4 votes

Q: Nice meme!

This was an appropriate response for one reason - Rengar's old Q and his ferocity mechanic that he could've stacked that shit to instantly blow up people (even from stealth) is why you got this response. It doesn't matter what you or rengarmains prefer, it all comes down on "is it fair to play against or not". It wasn't and that was changed.

Tying most of Rengar's burst to his ferocity mechanic that enhances his AA and then give him a shit ton of leap range (and make him a stealth champion that jumps at you out of nowhere) and give him ways to increase that leap range is just bonkers. Don't pretend that the old version of him was fine. It wasn't and it wasn't better than what we have now.

ZT Xperimentor6/12/2017, 2:43:23 PM3 votes

For those who haven't seen that post, go read it, it'll open your eyes. Unfortunately riot's avoidance of feedback has been more aggressive, I've seen some well thought out and respectable posts deleted for no reason, rather spitefully.

Pluniverse6/12/2017, 2:07:05 PM3 votes

Because if we had the old rengar in this meta im pretty sure he would be a 95 percent ban along with yasuo.

Sraeg20136/12/2017, 1:58:42 PM2 votes

Two words:

Dynamic Queue

Moon Mom6/12/2017, 12:16:47 PM2 votes

Diana is still classified as a diver....

Swarovsko6/12/2017, 2:33:49 PM2 votes

Often buff champions after release, before the playerbase has fully adapted to that champion and learned how to play them, making them ludicrously strong when the playerbase adapts,

Zac Ivern and history repeats itself once again

Scary Door6/12/2017, 5:08:03 PM2 votes

The problem with old Rengar was that once he got ahead he could simply kill anyone---and I don't mean far ahead, I mean when he had a kill or two/a small lead, he was just practically unstoppable. Many times I'd be playing a mage, adc or a fighter and get blown up by Rengar popping out of steath with virtually no ability to react as it took less than a second. That triple Q shit that he used to be able to do was not at all fun to play against.

Tobias Brackner6/13/2017, 10:04:05 AM1 votes

The boards need to stop feeling entitled to saying how a champion needs to play without actually creating a specific argument about each element. Stuff beyond just "We X Mains". Just because you main a champ doesn't mean you are an expect on how they should work. At most you are good at knowing how they do work.

ThatHaleState6/13/2017, 2:46:12 PM1 votes

At the end of the day, it is their decision to take community feedback into account. If they agree on the issue, they will more than likely do something about it. If they do not agree with the issue, they probably won't. They listen and see it, but they don't have to do anything about it. If they are happy with the changes they make to something, then they are happy with their creation. They are probably sad that some people don't like it, but there are also plenty of people who do like it.

leaugesbane6/13/2017, 5:02:28 PM1 votes

it wasn't just 2 years ago It was 4 years ago back when east coast ping was a huge problem and probably before that as well.

it will continue for as long as this game is alive because its riots policy. better yes still bad also yes.

big boi edri6/13/2017, 9:32:24 PM1 votes

People seem to forget these boards and the sub-Reddit are both a miniscule fraction of the community.