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Kindred problems and my idea for a rework to fix them. (Post your own Ideas :D)

Scream Engineer·7/25/2017, 12:28:26 AM·4 votes·734 views

I've seen a lot of posts about how shitty the Kindred rework was recently and honestly I agree on some points. Kindred was kind of a champion destined for failure since release. Not because they/she was always bad, but because their story and game-play differ so much.

Don't get me wrong the Duo of Death is one of my favorite lore releases to this date and I loved playing Kindred at first. However the more I thought about it I realized all the holes they had. Most obviously wolf not being up to par with lamb.

So before I list all the problems and how to fix them let me introduce myself. I'm Scream Engineer a game design student, lover of League and a once Kindred main.

**NOTE: **These are just my issues and ideas for Kindred . Please don't be offended if anything I write differs from your opinion. Also Please post your own ideas!

Problem #1: Who is Wolf? They are portrayed as two intertwined entities in their lore, but in game you might as well forget about wolf. He is just a minor part of their kit that makes Lamb's abilities look good. Kinda like Quinn and Valor.

Problem #2: Current Stacking System is so easy to Counter The current stacking system is not the best. It does allow for counterplay yes, but it gives way to much counterplay ability to the enemy team. The fact that Kindred and their enemies can see where the stack is at the same time is a big problem. It makes countering them so easy. All you have to do is pick a good early game jungler and Kindred just can't keep up. Especially since they way her passive works incentivizes the enemy team to group more than Kindred's own team. (If raptors get marked the enemy mid laner can easily help their jungler force Kindred away. Same for the side lanes and Krugs/Gromp. Not to mention Blue and Red buff are always being taken by the enemy jungler so if wolf marks one of those you are virtually screwed. The only mark that is easy for them to take is Scuttle and Scuttle is always their first mark. If an enemy jungler sacrifices 30 seconds in-between taking Blue and Red on first clear to take scuttle, Kindred is screwed out of their first stack for the next 3 minutes (how long it takes scuttle to respawn) or 50 second (how long it takes for kindred to mark the other scuttle) unless they get a good gank.

AND your best mark only gets marked up until mark #3.

Problem #3: Feast or Famine Any Kindred rework with the current stacking system makes stacks either feel great or shitty. If their stacks give them a lot of power their early game has to suffer, and if they are given a good early game their stacks have to be shitty with the current system.

If they have too much early game and good stack rewards (i.e. Kindred release) they scale way to well. But if they have good stack rewards and a shitty early game they can't get stacks at all b/c they are countered to easily (Kindred now). Most of this has to do with the jungle marksman fantasy that RIOT has for them. Junglers are typically roaming characters that support their team with ganks early game while still being able to contribute in team fights later. The problem with a marksman jungle is that Marksmen have a bad early game but contribute a ton of damage late game. The two roles cant mix well because you cant have a marksman that has a good early and late game. Just look at Draven right now, and Caitlyn a patch or two ago (depending on who you ask maybe even now). Don't get me wrong a balanced marksman jungle is possible, but it is really hard to balance.

Problem #4: Their ult Their ult makes no sense with their lore. I realize that they wanted to add utility to her, but most of the time it saves the enemy more than you.

Problem #5: Mounting Dread The E on their kit is really weird now. It is your main ganking and initiation tool, but also your execute. It's just counterintuitive

TLDR PART 1: Lamb and wolf don't make Kindred. Lamb makes Kindred and wolf is a bonus pet like Valor. Current stacking system is too easy to counter, ult is weird for their lore, current E is both initiation and execute, and Kindred's marksman jungle fantasy was hard to do from the beginning.

My rework Idea: Keep in mind I have no way of testing numbers so these could easily be changed.

Passive: Mark of the Kindred Innate: Both Lamb and Wolf mark targets to for death. Scoring a takedown on a marked target permanently empowers Kindred's abilities.

Lamb - Enemy Champions: Lamb is offered a selection of champions to take down, which is hidden while in combat with an enemy champion. Once selected, there's an 8 seconds delay before the Mark can be collected, and Lamb can change her target if the target hasn't died during a period of time. Targets successfully hunted cannot be targeted again for some time.

Wolf - Enemy Monsters: Starting at 2:30, Wolf periodically selects a monster camp within the jungle based on Lamb's current Marks for 180 seconds, and selects another one 50 seconds after killing a marked monster:

  • 0-3 Stacks: Gromp, Krugs, Raptors, Wolves on Kindred's side of the Jungle

  • 4-7 Stacks: Scuttle Crab, Gromp, Wolves, Krugs, Raptors on the enemy's side of the Jungle *8+ Stacks: Rift Herald, Baron Nashor, All Drakes

  • Only Kindred and allies can see which camps are marked unless the enemy has seen the monster while it was marked. If the enemy sees the monster while it is marked the camp will show up on their minimap until the enemy kills the monster or 15 seconds after the camp is killed by Kindred or their allies)

  • If an enemy kills Kindred's Mark Kindred will lose the minimap marker 15 seconds after it was killed

Q: Dance of Arrows Cooldown: 7/6/5/4/3 Active: Lamb dashes in the target direction while firing up to three homing arrows on arrival against the three nearest targets, dealing them physical damage. Lamb's current attack target at any proximity will be prioritized by one of the arrows.

Arrows do 35% of Lambs damage, can critical strike, and apply on-hit effects at the same percentage. (Cooldown based on-hit effects like item 3057 will only apply to Lambs target or the closest enemy at full damage)

Stacks give 5 out of combat movement speed and increases the damage percentage by 2.5%

(Note: there is no cooldown reduction in Wolf's Frenzy)

W: Wolf's Frenzy COOLDOWN: 18 / 17 / 16 / 15 / 14 Active: Wolf dashes to the target direction latching onto and attacking the enemy wolf hits for the next 4 seconds. Wolf's basic attacks deal magic damage, slow, and scale with 50% of Kindred's bonus attack speed (He has 1.0 base attack speed). If Lamb leaves the area wolf will stop attacking and return to her. (Area is the same as live)

Deals 1.5% Current Health Damage and slows the enemy for 20%.

Stacks increase damage by .75%

_ Against monsters deals Max health damage, last twice as long, and cripples them for twice the time and effect of the slow._

Can be recast to cancel

E: Mounting Dread COOLDOWN: 16 / 15 / 14 / 13 / 12 Lamb marks a target for 4 seconds. Attacks refresh the mark duration. Lambs third attack directs Wolf to pounce on them consuming the mark, dealing 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 (+ 80% bonus AD) (+ 8% (+ 0.5% per Stack) of target's missing health), capped at 300 against monsters.

Lamb cannot mark a target if wolf is using Wolf's Frenzy unless the target is Wolf's Target

If wolf is using Wolf's Frenzy during the animation for the third attack Wolf will stay to apply the bite damage when Lambs arrow arrives (This makes the slow continue until the attack arrives, additionally Lamb's arrow will do normal damage along with the bite damage from wolf

Wolf's attacks critically strike for 50% (+ 0.5% × bonus critical damage) bonus damage against targets below 15% - 65% (based on critical strike chance %) of their maximum health.

R: The Chase of Death COOLDOWN: 160 / 130 / 100 Lamb fires wolf from her bow in a target direction 3500 units after channeling for 1 second. Wolf's size grows the further he travels. If he hits an enemy he deals damage based on how far he "chased" them. If they are below 15% health or if the damage is high enough to instantly kill them he suppresses them and eats them over 2 seconds. (no heals, cleanses, or shields can save them. Only thing that can is Kayle ult and Tyndemyre ult, but both have to be cast before Wolf hits them)

Stacks increase the threshold by 1%

Kindred's W is silenced and the E will only refresh the mark on the third hit until Wolf returns

TLDR 2: Changes to all abilities. Passive now starts marking in your jg, Q does less damage early and is more of a sticking tool. W Does is a skillshot and main dmg for jungle clear along with your initiation tool as it slows, E pretty much the same but without the slow and some QoL changes, and R completely different (read it at least)

Let me know what you think :D

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

8 Comments

SpelingMistakee7/25/2017, 1:54:11 AM1 votes

I think it's awesome

Ben Sharpio7/25/2017, 6:39:30 AM1 votes

No that ult is unbelievably overpowered what the hell?! Kindred's design is so dumb, and boring to play against. You basically have to chase her around the map because she gives you "chores" to do and her current janna tier ult (in terms of effectiveness and easiness to use) is boring/annoying as well.

Karn Bishop7/25/2017, 7:01:07 AM1 votes

When they first announced kindred i thought we were going to get the first champion that does not actually "die" like your jungling as lamb and die during a gank but instead of a 10-20 second gray screen you instantly respawn at fountain as wolf and play as him until you get killed again at which point your sent back to fountain as lamb.

Yes this does mean that she would have had no down time but considering they are the avatars of death it makes sense and to prevent it from being abused in certain ways they can just never be awarded the fountain speed boost and have teleport gain a cooldown equal to what their death timer would have been to prevent TP abuse if that would have been a problem.

Lamb would have been full on ranged either as an adc or to my preference as a ranged AD caster instead, wolf would be full on melee and gain increased damage to those who defy death or die the least.

Also yes this means no marks at all its a stupid method of balance to use on champions, it is crap on shyv and it is crap here, situational infinite scaling is never scaling it is just crippling weakness.

as to your idea i hate the champion as it exists entirely i would keep absolutely nothing of kindred outside of the model.

FeelsBannedMan7/25/2017, 8:45:14 PM1 votes

I feel like the whole guaranteed execute thing is a good idea (shame urgot did it first) but I think the % should also increase based on range.