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Proposed Syndra R Change From a Syndra Main

Sir Rouge·3/21/2019, 10:27:32 PM·3 votes·2,069 views

Disclaimer: Numbers subject to change

Current problems with Syndra's R: Frustration problems:

  • She can use her R to burst a squishy, sometimes without hitting any ability when fed.
  • Syndra's R burst is dependant on something she controls, rather than what the opponent controls. Even though there is counterplay, this type of counterplay can feel frustrating.

Power problems: Syndra's R varies from a super powerful ultimate to one of the worst ones for a mage

  • Sometimes, she's able to brute-force it on a target, regardless of how well she's playing/how well the opponent is playing.
  • Other times, she's never able to get in range to use her R, or she can't reliably have enough spheres out for it to do enough damage because of mana problems. As such, 7 sphere ultimates (maximum) are basically never seen and 6 sphere ultimates are actually not that common. 5 sphere ultimates are common.

Suggestion: One suggestion people have made is to make her R a skillshot. Syndra's R is designed to burst down squishy targets in a reliable way. A single-target ultimate skillshot would mean, not only she would have an unreliable single target ultimate, but her burst could be body-blocked; that would make it a terrible ultimate spell.

The suggestion I'm proposing is to make Syndra's R damage dependent on how many of her basic abilities she hit on the target in the past 3 seconds. In other words, her burst depends on if she hits her skillshots on the opponent, and how many. On one hand, the opponent can now avoid a lot of her burst by dodging her spells; on the other hand, Syndra still has the reliability in her R being point-and-click/unblockable, and is rewarded with a better ultimate when hitting multiple abilities on her target.

Current Syndra R damage: dependant on how many spheres she has out: Minimum total damage: 270/405/540 (+60% AP). Damage per sphere: 90/135/180 (+20% AP).

  • 5 sphere ultimate: 450/675/900 (+100% AP)
  • 7 sphere ultimate: 630/945/1260 (+140% AP)

Proposed New R damage: dependant on how many spells she hit on the target: --> 0 abilities hit on target in the past 3 seconds: 270/495/720 (+60% AP) (Rank 1: Previous 3 sphere ultimate. Rank 3: Base damage of previous 4 sphere ultimate) --> 1 ability hit on target in the past 3 seconds: 360/630/900 (+80% AP) (Rank 1: Previous 4 sphere ultimate. Rank 3: Base damage of previous 5 sphere ultimate) --> 2 abilities hit on target in the past 3 seconds: 450/765/1080 (+100% AP). (Rank 1: Previous 3 sphere ultimate. Rank 3: Base damage of previous 5 sphere ultimate). Deals triple damage against shields. --> 3 abilities hit on target in the past 3 seconds: 540/900/1260 (+140% AP) (Rank 1: Base damage of previous 6 sphere ultimate. Rank 3: Previous 7 sphere ultimate). Deals triple damage against shields.

With these changes, there is room to give Syndra the range she needs on her ultimate. R range: 675 (750 at rank 3) --> 725 (800 at rank 3)

Goals of the changes: Counterplay in the hands of the opponent: More fair damage for both the opponent and the Syndra player:

  • Lower damage than previous average ultimate on targets not hit by abilities.
  • Slightly lower damage than previous average ultimate on targets hit by 1 ability.
  • Slightly higher damage than previous average ultimate on targets hit by 2 abilities.
  • Higher damage than previous average ultimate on targets hit by 3 abilities. Better utility for the Syndra player:
  • Higher R range. Damage against shields on targets hit by 2+ abilities.

Imporant Note: - Her R will still interact the same way with her spheres: all spheres on the ground and the 3 orbiting her will hit the target and drop on the ground. Using your R for teamwide stuns is unchanged.

Damage calculation - Damage will be split between the spheres available, rather than each sphere doing a set amount of damage. For example:

Old Syndra: Rank one, 5 sphere ulti previously: Each sphere dealt 90 (+20% AP) damage = 450 (+100% AP) damage

New Syndra: Rank one, 5 sphere ulti with 0 abilities hit: each sphere will deal (270/5) (+60%/5) --> 54 (+12% AP) damage. = 270 (+60% AP) damage Rank one, 5 sphere ulti with 2 abilities hit: each sphere will deal (450/5) (+100%/5) --> 90 (+20% AP) damage. = 450 (+100% AP) damage Rank one, 4 sphere ulti with 2 abilities hit: each sphere will deal (450/4) (+100%/4) --> 112.5 (+25% AP) damage. = 450 (+100% AP) damage

5 Comments

Jalesom3/23/2019, 2:25:06 PM2 votes

I suggest for starters that they add an indicator like Annie's to Syndra to show how many spheres she has out. This would help with counterplay. Imagine getting 6-7 spheres in the ground while walking back to lane, immediately stunning the opponent, and ulting for the kill. The enemy had no way of knowing she was at full power so there was no counterplay. It's a simple fix that solves most complaints against her over the years.

Second, the mana problems although frustrating are an important part of her counterplay. Deny her blue or if your own jungler denies you blue, she is easier to play against. Her kit is about managing her spheres and mana. Cast frivolously and you've lost the game on your own. Her positioning both to her spheres, to the enemy, and to the environment also must be thought out. Put simply her play style is highly Calculated like the high skill cap Lee Sin (but in different ways) and that is why I play her.

6 and 7 sphere ultimates do happen - a lot! Just in the right players hands. Most people make the mistake of ulting too soon and then getting blown up with their abilities down. She is all about setting up her R which I agree you are teasing out in your post. There is definitely a skill cap to learn.

This type of interaction for her R may work for laning phase but not for late game. She has to stay in the back and unlikely to hit her spells against their backline squishy before ulting, especially with how long it takes to get spheres on the ground. Instead, your suggestion would almost force her to hit the frontline target and E for whole team stun making her more supporty than primarily bursty. I would be heart broken if she ended up in bot lane instead of mid.

You do hit on an important point regarding interactivity and skill cap. If we raise her skill cap through her interactivity instead of just flat buff's, she would be easier to balance and have more powerful moments and importantly have more counterplay.

Keep working on refining your idea and coming up with new ones for her! This is an interesting and thoughtful read.

Ahri Body Pillow3/22/2019, 1:20:11 AM1 votes

Too strong.

Sirsir3/23/2019, 2:31:13 PM1 votes

I wouldn't mind it losing the sphere interaction for the sake of consistency, and she simply mitosis-es her main 3 'spheres' to match spell hits. You could still get up to 7 if you hit both Qs, but you have to HIT a naked Q and everything else.