Galio is the Perfect Example of Modern League

ModCaptainMårvelous·8/22/2019, 1:38:46 AM·100 votes·20,846 views

And it's not because "bweh bweh bweh tanks bad :("

Galio is the ultimate example of the problem Riot continues to (and will forever run into): Balancing for pro and pug play NO LONGER WORKS.

So we have Galio on rework, a pretty decent champ. He's got some AP Ratios, he's got parts of his old kit and overall he's workable for players in PUGs. The problem then arises that Galio turns out to be really fucking good as a tanky initiator. Pro play now picks up Galio and abuses the shit out of him while he's generally "workable" in PUG play.

Now fast forward months. Galio has been retooled into an AP Battlemage (which failed), then back to an out-and-out tank (which failed) and then back into this weird hybrid of parts until he's no longer an issue in pro play at the cost of his PUG play. But now he's going to get buffed to be pickable/decent in soloqueue which will not help his pro play at all, forever doomed to fly between "PUG stomper" or "Pro-averse".

Riot, this isn't 2012 anymore. You can't balance for these two (three if you count high-ELO solo queue) gameplay. The needs of pros are vastly different than the needs of pugs.

Pick a side and stick with it. This isn't making anyone happy anymore. PUGs are whining because their favorite champs are changed and chopped apart due to pro play. Pros are whining because they're stuck playing similar champs over and over because Issac Iron in Iron 3 has to be allowed to play Azir because he got a new skin for him. I would prefer pros get catered to but get over this insane desire to make everyone happy. Because right now you're making nobody happy.

109 Comments

AccurateYeet8/22/2019, 1:47:46 AM68 votes

I mean I'd have to argue against catering to the pros as a whole. They should be good enough to make it work and they're getting paid to be there as opposed to the average Joe who plays for fun. If something's overbuffed in pro play and about average viable in solo queue then so be it.

I don't have problems with champions like Azir being unplayable in iron because they're difficult to execute on, but chopping Galio out of the game because the pros don't like it should be secondary to player experience.

SuperLuigiLXIV8/22/2019, 2:16:35 AM16 votes

The game should be optimized for the majority of the players, in this case the 99.99% of the playerbase that aren't pros. Pros are pros because they can take things above and beyond what others do, they do not need champions designed to work on their level.

And if the pro scene stagnates, then the game's not meant to have a pro scene.

Glass Rammus8/22/2019, 1:43:07 AM14 votes

I'm a German Shepherd.

Zullar8/22/2019, 7:40:59 PM10 votes

Last season even though Ryze was the lowest win rate champion in the game (45%) he was nerfed due to pro play.

I completely agree the pro-play + regular player balance does not work.

If the goal is to add diversity to the pro champion picks then force in on them. For example in a best of 7 series 1st game 10 bans 2nd game 10 more bans (plus original 10) for 20 total bans 3rd game 10 more bans (plus original 20) for 30 total bans 4th game 10 more bans (plus original 30) for 40 total bans 5th game 10 more bans (plus original 40) for 50 total bans 6th game 10 more bans (plus original 50) for 60 total bans 7th game 10 more bans (plus original 60) for 70 total bans

You'd get to see a lot more diversity. Maybe by the 7th game Teemo gets picked?! Maybe all ADC's get banned and a double melee bot lane is picked. Who knows.

But most importantly the balance team could focus on regular players.

Terozu8/22/2019, 2:07:24 AM10 votes

PUG?

General Esdeath 8/22/2019, 6:26:34 AM8 votes

I prefer they just balance for solo queue. The pro LCS players can ban anything that's too good, and just work around it. What's the difference between that and playing the same 16 champs every game?

Zlera8/22/2019, 1:59:24 AM6 votes

I personally feel like the game should be balanced around solo-queue. Most of riots money comes from solo-q; the majority of players are as well. Its annoying for champions to be balanced purely around pro play they may as well be removed from solo queue, be it kalista or azir.

Wacky98/22/2019, 3:49:18 AM5 votes

Just balance separately. Pros are paid to play League at a different level than everyone else, and that should be taken into account. Organized play is completely different from high-elo and people in soloQ should be able to play Shen without feeling useless, just because pros can abuse it.

Linna Excel8/22/2019, 4:05:32 PM4 votes

I really think riot could probably balance for both if they were willing to have different numbers for pro-play than average play. However if riot had to pick a side, I think they should be designing around plat largely because that was their goal for balance when riot was becoming the biggest game.

As for the pros, they need to shut up. They exist because of the causal fans and not the other way around. Furthermore as professionals, they aren't playing the game to have fun. They are playing the game to git gud and win worlds. That's it. If you have to play the same champ 1000 times a season, that's your job. Real sports athletes tend to play a single position their entire career.

Groot4Love8/22/2019, 9:59:26 AM4 votes

I HATE THIS COMPANY SO MUCH*[sg-shisa]*

Xonra8/22/2019, 12:59:47 PM4 votes

Honestly I hate the idea of catering to the pros at all let alone picking a side and sticking with it. The pros are nothing more than an advertisement for the game. For the majority of the games life they have cost the game money, not made it any until maaaaaaaaybe 2 years ago.

The fact that the game is to any extent catered to a few hundred at most player over literal millions is dumb enough as it is. This isn't like the NFL where it brings in billions of dollars and there are millions of fans. the majority of the viewers also play LoL, and they play casually. Like 1% of most Pro Sports viewers play the game they watch, and that's counting high school and college.

Ekhasm8/22/2019, 11:09:48 PM4 votes

Fuck pro play

Power Cosmic8/22/2019, 11:42:09 PM3 votes

The game has to go back to what made it work. Which was different champs doing different things for teams. Making macro an important part of the game would force gamers to learn it or be bad. But that worked bc LoL gameplay is fun and relatively easy. This would mean games (all else mostly being equal) revolving around counters and win conditions. With new kits too loaded it makes a lot of other champs simply not matter at high level play. Often now it is more risky to take a non-carry then a carry, because so many champs that can carry can also do a lot more. For example, in solo que Aatrox, Irelia, Sylas or Renekton who can all hard carry can also serve the purpose of hard engagers simply through winning lane. Other than carrying, engaging was usually the most potent weapon in the genre like a Blitz pull or Malphite R. Pulls are so strong of spells in mobas, that usually a champ that has one only gets that, bc pulls are risk free engages. Sylas has that and everything else in spades.

But the main way to bring pro and soloq gameplay closer is to make macro important. The more you have to learn the game to be successful, the more you can balance for both. Then the really good players will not only have better mechanics, but also more awareness and creativity to take advantage of more situations. Which in tune makes it so there are more ways to be good, which means more ways to have fun. When champs individually do everything themselves, which is not how a 5v5 objective based should work, amazing players will be playing a different game then average ones. In pro-play the champs are actually utility carries to them, where they can do whatever a team needs in any game with certain picks Aatrox. Others have so many tools they are just impossible to counter or kill, making a few new carries universally very safe if the player is skilled with kb&m.

When macro is important, it is a more similar game for both, just the pros are better. Risk, reward dynamic has to be properly balanced back into the game too. Old Swain destroyed all assassins, and could be a bully but was not a carry so his win rate stayed consistent and he had a gameplay identity and a good reason to play him. If the only reason to play a champ now is he's cool, and maybe I can just win a 1v1 50/50 fight then most people will be turned off and quit. This genre and game are about creating 80/20 situations either through play or picks. If during laning Lissandra ults you and Rek'Sai gets behind you, you are dead. That is the game. Not going in and out of a cloud while having good sustain making you impossible to kill while you scale hard and fast, giving you a big reward and NO risk if you have the skill.

Simply meaning kits need less in them. Whatever the champs still do, pro will do it better, but because they can not do everything it brings macro and risk back into play. Too much in kits means great players can do everything and become safe carries, while leaving most all other champs behind and destroying the macro play. The solution is to bring back a real early game which would require nerfing or changing Runes, then shelve/rework/revert/dumpster some champs whose kits are too loaded for this type of game, and introduce real carry dynamics beyond marksmen where getting a carry fed is an important part of the game for teams. The game is more fun if you are not forced to play one certain way. Tanks should be tanks, hard to kill bullies who can kill you early especially with help, harder to kill to late than non-tanks but not much dps and more about cc and making plays. No more class metas and start doing wider champ metas.

DoktorKaiser8/22/2019, 1:07:44 PM3 votes

This would've been fixed if they implemented the best idea I've ever heard in a post around season 5 worlds after Morde was being abused to no end. The idea is - in a pro play game disable champions that were already picked or banned in previous games of a tie. It's brilliant, it would outright remove broken cancer after just 1 game and would enable pros to pick different stuff. It would also make the games more fun as we would see rare champs and weird matchups instead of the same old shit every time which made me quit watching pro play around season 6. There are 140 champs, it's perfectly doable, but I guess RIOT thinks that everyone wants to watch the same matchup 50 times per season which is beyond boring and the reason why pro play is irrelevant on streaming platforms compared to seasons 2-5.

Düff McWhalen8/23/2019, 5:12:59 PM1 votes

I'm 100% fine with balancing for pro play. They are the best, therefore people will be forced to learn to play like them or gtfo. Common sense says the average player quality would rise. Hell. They should balance match making around Pro play so Irons play with Irons and Plats with Plats etc etc so I don't constantly get teammates that are a full tier below me.