Opinion: Elise Human Q feels terrible
The mana cost is through the roof for a single target ability The damage often feels less impactful than Spider Q You don't feel the "Neurotoxin" part of the ability at all.
37 Comments
It is a pretty outdated spell made to be a generic startup spell for the rest of 
's rotation. Personally, I would like to see it rot the target's HP and make them more vulnerable to the rest of her spells. Maybe a target affected by Neurotoxin will be stunned by Cocoon for a longer duration and take x1.3 damage from Volatile Spiderling. Still pretty generic, but the idea is there.
Elise as a whole is really clunky for how long her combo is and how much damage she doesn't really do anymore. Her items have changed so she doesn't do as much damage and it shows. Elise has to do a combo set in a form change. If I'm getting this right she has to Human E Q W R E W wait for autos then Q so as to get the full effect. As most other champions with damage in mind you can just do some variation of three spells and it's done. Even Nidalee who also isn't great right now is easier, you just Human Q R W E Q. Elise is hard partly because of how clunky she is. I would suggest she get a Xin sized rework to be honest. Her theme is cool, but she just doesn't fulfill it will. She is meant to be an AP Lee Sin, early game pseudo assassin that turns into a light bruiser with CC, but she doesn't have as much CC, she isn't as tanky, and for the most part she does less damage. So why pick her over Lee?
Elise's entire kit feels terrible. Her spider form kit and her human kit are just not fluid at all, there's no chemistry. Switching between them is so awkward and you run OOM way quicker than you should.
Elise, like many jungle champions of her day such as 
and 
, was designed to be viable in top lane as well as the jungle.
This means that she was given tools to lane as well as jungle. The human portion of her Q is one of those laning tools; an ability which allows her to reliably trade without exposing herself to extreme danger.
However this dual nature kit style had.. problems. Most of the champions designed around it became disgustingly powerful at something as a result (W max poke-murder Kha'zix, Rengar & Aatrox in general, Elise top) which then led to some pretty hefty nerfs. As a result Elise's human Q isn't terribly strong in a jungle role, and she's not a great solo top laner. This results in it not having much of a 'niche' to speak of, as it's supposed to gradually wear her enemies down over multiple casts and make them vulnerable to her spider form all in.
Opinion: Elise is terrible
How's Elise for JG? I don't know why but I've never heard of her until now, then I saw her spider pets and was like O_O!!!
how it feels to use use elise human form Q: "current health damage? great!" use it on a full HP tank... well that wasn't impactful at all...
Fact: Elises model makes my peepee go big
Fully agree. And I've made posts about Elise needing a small rework or more MONTHS AGO.
I'm glad your post got traction tho and is gaining discussion. :^)
In a personal sense. I've played Elise since 2013 not too shortly after Zac came out. I feel like she's one of those Grandma's to new changes in technology. All of these new runes seem to fit her playstyles pretty well, but the items made it fall apart. I could agree her over all kit seems pretty clunky, but it also feels super smooth executing the whole combo within 2.5 seconds of your gank. I feel like her Human Q could be something similar to Brands Conflagration, just without the spread. I would also like to see her spiderlings be more involved with her kit. So it would be a bit more impactful if whomever you gank just kills your lings, half your damage is cut right there. Her human W could even throw one of her summoned lings and if it hits (Large Monster or Champion) You don't lose out on one of your lings. It could even be a skillshot thrown at a target area (Like Zilean Q) and if a target walks over it or it lands directly on them it could continuously slow up to a certain % then explode. The longer it sits the more damage it would do. But if one of her abilities hits the target, it could explode it immedately. I dunno, just some ideas I had since I started playing her.
Also Nid's spear hitbox feels too thin.
I agree. Elise as a champion I think suffers from a kit where she clearly had abilities designed purely to fill up a slot, rather than to generate interesting gameplay. Her human Q is one such ability, where it does nothing unique on its own, but simply gives Elise one more thing to do as part of her combo. Personally, I've always wanted a clearer split between her human and spider forms, where her human form would have different CC types that would set up her comboes, and her spider form would provide her with the mobility and damage to follow up on her own plays. In this respect, I'd much rather Neurotoxin lost its damage in favor of a blind or some other debilitating CC, so that Elise could use it to set up plays, rather than just as point-and-click damage.
Need's a Xin scale rework tbh.
Bring back Season 5 Elise!
I love Elise. She's the only reason I could ever go into the jungle without feeding my butt off when I first attempted to play the role back in season 6. She ended up being the I would manage to get M7 on even though I primarily only ever wanted to queue bot lane. I agree that her human Q really leaves something to be desired. An idea I have is something like:
Q: Make this ability a skill shot with a cone (like a horn) that was two regions of damage. The outer cone would be at most as long as her current Q and then a very narrow cone inside that is reaches as far as about 1/3 of the outer cone. The idea is that if Elise wants to land the inner cone she has to move a dangerously close range distance (with how squishy she is). This ability can hit multiple targets but stops on the first ones hit. Remove current %HP damage.
New effects:
-
If an enemy is hit by the inner cone of neurotoxin they are marked with spider pheromones. The pheromones wear off if any of the following conditions are satisfied. The enemy is cleansed by an ability or item effect, Elise loses vision of her target, or if a fixed amount of time passes.
-
If Elise bites a target under the effect of pheromones her Q has an increase of X% damage that scales with level.
-
If spiderlings attack a target under the effects of pheromones they are further enraged gaining an additional 10% attack speed.
-
If Elise skills a target marked with pheromones she gains a cooldown refund proportional to the amount of time the target would've still been under the pheromone effects to her rappel.
Basically, I'm proposing incentivizing players to use their rappel to chase after their targets more aggressively instead of holding on to it to dodge skill shots or abilities. If the player succeeds in doing so they're rewarded with a shortened cooldown on the escape ability they aggressively used to secure her kill. This would all be tied into her Q.
its pretty much there to pair with Rylais to make the cocoon easier to hit I feel, late game it seems like it tickles though, maybe the scaling on it should be increased to reward higher ap builds on a pretty bad late game champ.
I like the idea of an opener that does % current health damage, and the same ability doing % execute damage later on, i think thats cool, but the human q often does less damage than its mana cost, especially early in the game
iirc its a relic of old nerfs that riot is wary of undoing. Elise on release was BUSTED in top lane to the point that they had to absolutely murder her human forms Q in terms of range, damage and mana cost. She was basically a really good and really safe top laner when she was introduced in s3 and became a prominent jungler only after she was literally nerfed until forced out of top lane.
I honestly feel like the nerfs are outdated and unnecessary nowadays but they probably have plans to eventually change her in bigger ways.
I believe a good change in direction for her would be to buff her late game in regards to her W. As it stands right now, it's almost very unlikely he will land a good E on anyone or get in to assassinate a squishy, because honestly she lacks the damage. Therefore, she needs to stay in range and AA them with the spiderlings to deal damage (damage is respectable by her passive), but it's unreliable. If she somehow had slightly increased AA range while her W is active or spiderlings were less clunky so that she could get some autos off late game, she could be a good semi-fighter.
I'd like to see Neurotoxin reworked into an actual toxin. Simple DoT, possibly a skillshot. Add some interactions with some other skills as well, maybe the stun could be longer if it hit a target afflicted with Neurotoxin, her human W could spread Neurotoxin to targets in its AoE if it hit a poisoned target and the spider form Q could deal extra damage to poisoned targets. Obviously you'd have to rebalance most of her kit to do this, but it could make her Q actually fit into her kit pretty well.
I miss playing top lane elise.
The issue is that her Q is pretty busted for sololane when it's strong. I remomber the S2 toplane elise, and it was worse than jayce, kennen and even AD-nidalee The consistent point n click %heakth damage would wear any target down till it's low enough for an all-in rather quickly, while her spider form sustain and E would make it hard to punish her in any way.
I think elise could use a minor rework. She has a toxin, a venom and yet not a single dot, and she could use a stronger link between her human and spider form. Imo her Both Qs should appliy a dot+debuff that interacts with the abillities of her other form. This would force her to follow up as spider to get high value from human Q while still haveing it an interesting and statisfying abillity overall. It would also allow to make her human W more interresting through an interaction with her spider Q(other than the leaping spider) The only issue with that is that Elise currently has a strong identity as burst champ, which wouldn't work to well with that idea of dots and more impact from multiple form switches.
people still use that?[sg-miss-fortune] elise Q
MAKE IT A DOT THAT INCREASES DAMAGE DEALT TO THE ENEMY (AND CHANGE IT TO A SKILLSHOT MAYBE)
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
(I'd really like it tho)
Do spiders even use neurotoxins?