How to play against Shaco, Ekko, Sett, Aphelios, Fiora, Senna?

Sylaelque·2/1/2020, 4:18:23 AM·4 votes·5,125 views

I want to complain a lot but it will not solve anything so how we should play against them? [sg-lux-2]

Like is someone always have to ban Fiora and Sett for top lane, Senna and Aphelios for bot, I have to ban Ekko for jungle but Shaco keeps ruining my team's game because he is clearing camps faster without getting damage and blinks everywhere and stays invisible until blink again then all team blames each other and game is getting even more toxic. https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Shaco/History#Patch_History https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Ekko/History#Patch_History https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Fiora/History#Patch_History

22 Comments

iiGazeii2/1/2020, 4:50:29 AM5 votes

Shaco

His early game is pretty atrocious, especially his clear. Invade level 1, and keep invading. You can tell which one is the clone because it takes a suspiciously high amount of damage. His mobility and stealth make him hard to catch, but he pays for it in the raw burst department, so he struggles to get kills if his team can't poke down the enemy.

Ekko

He's vulnerable to dives and skirmishes pre-6 since so much of his power is tied up in his ult. His stun is long, but hella telegraphed, so if you get hit by with, he outplayed you hard. Until he can clear the wave with one Q, he's kinda terrible at trading, so punish any early aggression and let him shove. Once he gets his ult, keep your distance from the afterimage, and try to force him to pop it early with threatening CC.

Fiora

An incredible duelist, but struggles in long trades, skirmishes, and teamfights, plus her laning phase is bad. Anybody with a strong early game and/or good roaming potential can crush her. Take early objectives to shove down your tower, then look to help your team elsewhere. There's no point in trying to 1v1 Fiora.

Aphelios

He's uber-squishy. His damage is disgusting, but he pops like a balloon if a mage or assassin looks at him funny. His whole kit is autoattack-based, so Ninja Tabis cuts a huge chunk out of his damage.

Senna

Everything she does is on a long delay, including her autoattacks. She's squishy, with very poor mobility and unreliable CC, but she does heavy damage, especially in short trades. Her cooldowns are long, yet she has mana issues early on. She struggles against hard engages and long trades, yet needs to stay aggressive to scale. Sidestep her W, and punish her for overstepping.

Tribbles Foxfolk2/1/2020, 5:39:56 AM3 votes

Tl;dr: Senna is a champion that wants to pop off early and get her cheap burst items early on, but is very easily shut down by hard CC, engages, anyone she can't kill with a rotation and couple of auto-attacks, being burst down, or getting outscaled. (for more on her scaling, reference the part where I talk about her passive.) If you can, avoid trading in short bursts with her unless you are absolutely sure you will win, and try to force her to dry up her very shallow mana pool when you can. She only gets enough mana to start reliably using spells once she has her Tear, a Chalice, and/or some stacks on Manaflow Band/Presence of Mind.

Senna wants to trade in short bursts, suffers extensively from mana issues throughout the early and midgame, and has very unreliable CC. Hard engages are your best friend against her since she has pretty much no way to prevent it or break free without Flash. She CAN just try to out-damage you, but if you're Nautilus Thresh Leona or pretty much any assassin/engage tank, she's pretty doomed. Long trades aren't nearly as favorable for her, but if you aren't someone that benefits highly from long trades, I'd very much recommend playing long trades safer than sorry, as multiple procs of her passive add up pretty quickly.

It's kinda generic advice to say "just burst her down lol", but one of Senna's biggest weaknesses by far is a hard engage followed by burst damage. Generally, she's just not that strong unless you give her too much wiggle room to just run away and/or take potshots at you. Senna is also really bad at scaling, despite her passive. She mostly just gets safer as her soul count gets higher, not really stronger.

Actually, let's talk about her passive for a moment and clear up some misconceptions around its "infinite scaling" and the "guaranteed crits" it eventually gives. Did you know? It takes 140 Mist Wraiths for her to reach 100% Critical Strikes without items. At 140 stacks, she also gains 140 AD, which is 2x what item 3508 gives but without the other stats or passives, about 1.75% Lifesteal, and 175 bonus attack range, which sets her at 775 base range, one of the longest possible AA ranges. This sounds like a lot, but this is also 140 stacks of a passive that stacks fairly slowly by all accounts (20% per small monster/minion); on an average minion wave of 3 melee and 3 caster (6 total), if she does NOT kill any of them, she will usually get 1 soul, with every 5th wave dropping a second. This doesn't factor in guaranteed drops from large monsters, champions, or cannons, but it is extremely unrealistic for Senna to achieve 140 stacks unless the game goes long.

For perspective: If Senna only idled near minions and picked up souls, at a 20% drop rate and minion spawn rate of 1 wave per 30 seconds, this would take her 3 full minutes to achieve 6 stacks. 140 stacks doing nothing else would require 70 minutes.

If you slashed the time by about 1/3 to factor in monster and cannon drops, champion deaths, activating passive, and so on, this would still require a game to go on for 47 minutes. That number is far more realistic, but still a very long game.

If you cut the time in half for a particularly active game and giving Senna the benefit of the doubt that she can somehow get every single soul that drops, that's still a 35 minute game. Achievable, but utterly unrealistic case that gives Senna way too much assumption in her favor and is pretty much best-case-scenario where the enemy will definitely forfeit long before she can hit 140 stacks.

This is how long it takes for Senna's passive to reach critical mass. (pun intended) So don't worry about her "popping off" just from stacking her passive, because the vast majority of games will end long before it can hit a point where she's rocking 140 souls. She doesn't scale infinitely, and in fact, falls off pretty hard because the detriments associated with her passive. (long windup for each autoattack, 60% AS effectiveness, -70% effectiveness of Critical Strikes)

Senna's strongest point is definitely in the mid-game after she's gotten a couple of items, especially if she has at least one that's Lethality, where her opponents might have some Armor and a decent amount of bonus HP, but not a lot of either, so bursting them is a lot easier. If she's built as an Enchanter (not just doable, but actually really good for long games or if your team just really needs the healing) with a item 3100 and even a item 3151 , she won't do nearly as much raw damage, but her healing will be a lot stronger and gives her a lot more insurance in the late game where she generally falters.

RyzeRework2/1/2020, 8:16:39 AM3 votes

honestly ekko is super easy to play against sense he is so squshy just cc him and kill him. the best i would say someone like elise i personally play sylas into ekko jg because i can do more damage and steal his ult and heal way more because of my w. shaco i would say is pretty easy honestly

ProphetOfDraven2/1/2020, 9:53:20 AM2 votes

Shaco, dont chase, he is annoying, but just don't chase, also he can't gank unless your overextended, unfortunately his innate qualities make him very strong in low elo. Senna and Aphelios you have to jump on them and one shot them. Fiora you have to play ranged. Sett you have to play ranged. Ekko you have to use your ban on.

GaurdianAngel8152/1/2020, 6:15:58 AM1 votes

Personally, I'd say the worst is ekko. He is literally breaking the game right now.

Love Anastasia2/1/2020, 4:50:56 AM1 votes

Don't kill shaco clone, invade him at early to take out his boxes, this will make him lose many power

Fiora: Don't try to win the splitpush against her, either pick something that clear waves truly fast (Anivia) or a champ that can win teamfight alone. If you have to fight her, sty close to the wall so she cant take all your vital points

Aphelios: He's truly immobile and in exchange has too much damage. So pick one assasin and try to one shot him. Otherwise you can pick a Jarvan and trap him in your R

Ban sett or ekko until they get nerfed, they're the 2 most broken champs atm

Idk about Senna, haven't played much lately. She isn't truly strong in early, right? Seeing her winrate against X champs, she seems to be weak against CC and in area damage (Fiddle, Sona, Leona...)

Kalcifar2/1/2020, 7:44:43 PM1 votes

Is there a vote for none, again no champion is OP, no champion is hard to play against. You have to learn how to play with fundamentals first. 6 champions to explain how to fight against each one. man that is a lot of info to dump onto one person. if it were one question like how to fight against Senna, then players could break down how to engage into her and counter. I will do my best to explain how to fight against all 6 champions.

First thing first, you win and lose through the draft people.

Lesson one, if you are 1st pick or 2nd pick in draft there are safe picks aka champions that are safe to pick for your role. IE for mid for example safe picks if you are 1st-2nd are Ori (phase rush), Vlad (phase rush), Fizz, tali, Neeko (Glacial), Leblanc, Ekko, Twisted fate, Annie, Ahri (glacial). Also again all roles have safe picks for their respective assignments.

Pick 3rd and 4th if you can counter or have synergy with your teammates pick your appropriate champions or one trick it. (side note all players should have 2 roles they like to play IE, MId-Top, Jungle-mid, bot-mid, Support-adc, support-mid, Top-mid,) and vice versa, also be sure to have 3 champions that you feel you've mastered, or just love, love to play. And or One trick it but have a 2nd champ in the pocket too.

4th pick or 5th is great to simply counter your opponents lane champion. Use two monitors, have second website open or run a 3rd party app to help you grow your mental library of champions to counter your opponents champs (but this is more high elo) or plat and above from what i've seen.

Some gold players and above understand to select counter champs to their laners, but mainly silver and below players dont have the knowledge yet. or any fundamentals yet.

Shaco ---is just sweepings lens, and imagine shaco is a closer, if your teammates or you are low on health he is going to engage and finish a teammate or you. when he fights have sweeping lens ready and control wards ready or just wards ready, you can immediately place a ward on your body where you are standing to kind of cheese an auto out of an enemy champion. Think of a ward like a totem.

Shaco--= peel engage, read and react and disengage against him then sweeping lens, focus fire with 2 teammates and having CC is a must or enemy champs that can interrupt knock up shaco. Shaco is all burst damage, some fear, and can really only have short trades. so sustain champs poke champs, control mages, and champs with interrupt knock ups can finish him, what does shaco excel at killing artillary mages, burst mages, ADCs, and enchanters, and some slayers. shaco will kill champs that dont have good mobility or champs that cant sustain through his burst, shaco is basicly good against those champs that i listed that dont have CC. Shacos worst nightmare, control mages and vanguard tanks.

Ekko. ---is also short trade, all in burst ap assassin. Ekko cannot sustain but has excellent mobility so you have to dodge his que, interrupt knock up, and counter his champ. with a control mage. Ekko excels at killing adcs, and the same targets that shaco can.

Sett,-- - is a sustain juggernaut, so he wants long trades to proc his passive his grit, short trades and read and watch his grit meter to poke him, burst him, and engage then walk away. sett is also another champion like garen different kit but easy to learn and easy to play against. find champs that counter juggernauts like Illoai, Maokai, Poppy, also Sett is designed to kill slayers and ad bruisers, he is the direct counter to those champs as well anay juggernaut is a direct counter to ad bruisers, remember ad bruisers want to fight and need to fight so playing as sett you want to force opponents to build up grit to then use it. again CC , interrupt knock up and other vanguard tanks and poke mages can mess up Sett.

Fiora --- same concept, she is an all in ad bruiser, i believe shes a slayer off the top of my head treat her like Yas, CC, poke mages, glacial mages, interrupt knock her, If i see a fiora top, i just vanguard tank to counter her, IE, poppy, ornn, maokai, Sion, malphite. or GP, or Vlad, or Ryze top to counter her. but if you want to trade blows then pick another ad bruiser to go for the boxing match, like Aatrox, Riven, yas, (etc...) id rather love to have the counter pick, then to match punches with her. because when you counter your enemy laner, and you are good enough you will end up in better 1v2 situations. (when I killed a fiora and master lee when they tried to gank me and im playing Maokai, :P ) but again, wave control, dodges skills shots, and weaving attack animations and canceling attack animations are apart of the fundamentals to players need to learn) macro>micro.

I dont think I've ever lost against an Aphelios hes an ADC..... like any adc what do they lack mobility so same principals apply. check proguides youtube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vwrE8k68Qw this is "The ONLY ADC Macro Guide You'll EVER NEED - League of Legends Season 9" also applies to season 10. Enjoy.

Senna..... same concept, shes like Jhin or caitlyn, long range adc. You can either control your waves, maximize your range and wave clear proper, pick MF cait, jhin into Senna, or duo q bot lane with a support friend, or have your friend that is a midlaner play support with you with good comms, and communication synergize your bot lane combo to match or beat your opponents. check out CoreJJ macro guide to the bot lane, so much great info for ADC's and supports to use.

best of luck on the Rift, good luck in season 10.

AidanWR2/2/2020, 12:15:32 AM1 votes

Sett's easy, just don't attack him, he won't get a shield. Duh. In all seriousness, he suffers from getting poked. Don't try to burst him because he will double his health for 4 seconds and deal half your health. He doesn't suffer from sustained fights or burst because of a shield and regen, but slowly poking him before he gets lifesteal is pretty much the only way. It's stupid that they made a bruiser that has no weaknesses

Śhunpo2/2/2020, 5:09:11 AM1 votes

Ban Aphelios , hopefully get Ekko banned as well. These champions lack relevant counterplay and it's absolutely zero fun to face them.

Senna you can beat simply by hyper snowballing early before she even gets items (apart from that you're screwed because this champion NEEDS nerfs ASAP).

Sett should also be banned, but if he isn't, just don't fight him if you're not confident, plain and simple. He's a juggernaut that gets rewarded for "being out of position" and fighting someone to the death, which he will win 99% of the time.

Fiora is an overbuffed piece of crap, but you beat her by being patient and knowing timings. Also by not having a top laner that ints to her early. So basically a top laner that knows how to play the game, which is rare now because top lane is such a shitfest.

Shaco you beat as a laner simply by being able to read when a gank can and is happening and when it will happen next. It also helps if you can deep ward, especially at raptors if you're the mid laner. In terms of fighting him, try to know which Shaco is the real one and buy sweepers ASAP; usually once lane has ended.