Why did Riot rework Maokai?

The Great Divide·2/26/2018, 8:25:12 AM·27 votes·2,549 views

I remember them saying that they weren't happy that Maokai was a "generalist" tank.

Except, to me, the rework did nothing to make him less generalist. In fact, all they really did a big change to was to his ultimate... by making it a standard tank engage ult...

The other small, not kit-altering, changes he got were or still are horribly unfun to play against - that being his bush saplings and his ridiculous healing.

Just looking at him I wonder what about old Maokai was fixed with this rework - how did it make him less of a generalist? Because as I see it, the rework just made him more frustrating...

24 Comments

OverpoweredSoap2/26/2018, 6:30:36 PM11 votes

New ult is easier to balance because of the amount of things you can tune on it and still make it useful.

Old Maokai ult was either good or terrible with just slight number changes.

Colgate Gator2/26/2018, 5:36:00 PM10 votes

I don't know about you but his current kit is more of a catcher/temafight forcer than before, given that back then he could catch, poke and reduce damage to all his team by 20%

Automated Riven2/26/2018, 5:33:31 PM7 votes

They wanted to adjust how much of a generalist he was. He wasn't quite fitting the generalist niche well enough so they emphasised just a little big harder on his generalist nature.

Sire Hippington2/26/2018, 7:49:03 PM5 votes

Pretty much all the tank reworks were uncalled for and prettymuch made them all the same CC-bit style of tanks, apparently useing nauti as the paragon for tanks or so it feels. every tank they worked on has atleast 2 hard CCs in their base kit and a hard cc ult, and often even some soft cc added as well...

There is a reason why only orn is used as top tank in pro and mao only gets played if they really want that tank while orn is banned - tanks do about the same, so only the strongest aviable is used, no reason to pick another tank that does exactly the same but worse...

LankPants2/26/2018, 10:19:01 PM5 votes

Why did Riot change Maokai, Zac or Sejuani?

The whole tank rework was one giant fuckup. All of the champs involved ended up worse off for it.

Teridax682/26/2018, 3:19:02 PM5 votes

I'm not entirely sure either, since as mentioned in the OP, Maokai's biggest change in the Tank Update took an ability that was unique, if a little troublesome to balance, and made it into something much more generic. In addition, it took a tank that I think innately works as a warden (his E and old ult are both defensive abilities by nature), and tried to turn him into a vanguard, with mixed results. I don't think any of the updated tanks were really more specialized, and in fact I think the Tank Update actually made the tank class much less diverse overall, while also causing them to overlap even further with fighters. What disappointed me with Maokai in particular was that the rework he received previously had done an amazing job of making him feel much better to play, while still keeping him fair overall. It feels like much of that progress was undone for no real reason after the roster update hit Live.

Personally, if Maokai is to change again (and I think that will inevitably happen), I'd rather bring him back into warden space. Personally, I always imagined Maokai as a defensive spell eater, as opposed to Galio, who's more of an offensive anti-spell Warden (or was, at least, since now he's more of a diver/vanguard). All of his old spells served as a means of intercepting incoming threats, and that I think should be his defining characteristic: at this best, Maokai should be this near-impenetrable wall who can categorically stop lethal spells by absorbing them himself, and by slowing down the enemy's advance. In order to achieve this, though, he should take the time to set up a perimeter via saplings, and should always keep a close eye on his positioning relative to his opponents and his allies. This alone could already be unique enough to set him apart from other Wardens, many of whom are much quicker and capable of providing immediate relief to their allies, though can typically only focus on one opponent at a time.

In order to allow this, I'd remove Maokai's current ult, and replace it with a more intense version of his old ult, one that would completely redirect all spells in an area to target and damage Maokai instead: it would allow him to protect his allies, and would synergize with his passive very well, but would also force him to rely much more on his sustain in order to survive teamfights, which could allow his current innate to be nerfed early and buffed late.

Doozku2/26/2018, 2:14:24 PM2 votes

Riot said that part of the idea behind the rework was that Maokai already had an up to date model and they were giving him a new VO update, so they were hoping that with a kit update they could get him to feel like a champion who was designed or reworked very recently. But his kit still feels like it belongs back in 2010 so I consider this update to be pretty much a failure. He still takes almost no effort to play even though Riot said that one of the goals with these tank updates was to make tanks take more skill to play. All in all, I think Maokai's update is a perfect example of why the tank update, and why roster updates in general were a bad idea. It's very clear that the updates were rushed judging by the quality of the reworks and especially the quality of the itemization and systems changes, seeing as how I think the vast majority of the items changes that the class updates introduced ended up needing to be changed and reworked at a later date (hello lethality and AP items!).

DeadUnborn2/26/2018, 4:34:10 PM2 votes

They didn't openly disclose it, but they changed the Ult specifically because it was a nightmare to balance for LCS. The ult was extremely good for that level of play, so they changed it for something good that isn't overbearing for LCS but left the character almost the same otherwise

Project Riven2/27/2018, 2:47:43 AM2 votes

Why do rework even exists at all. If they gonna rework, do it because the champ cannot be balanced anymore around entire champion pool, not because "it hasn't gotten attention in the longest time". Some champions' kit are perfectly fine, but they gut it entirely for no significant reason.

JohnnyNeverSins2/26/2018, 9:13:48 PM1 votes

The only thing i liked about him was his E after he got reworked and his E dealt like 20% max hp,was fun,1 item,5 of those little fuckers and you could delete someone,the last time i actually had fun with this game...

Abibyama2/26/2018, 4:11:54 PM1 votes

Although his old ult was unique. I don’t want it back

Limeheart XI3/1/2018, 4:46:48 PM1 votes

They Reworked galio not too long before and then realized that galio and old mao ult were too similar and would be tons of bull when used on top of one another...atleast that is my take on it

LyingOnLine2/26/2018, 7:51:59 PM1 votes

Basically, they hated his old ult; how it was boring, always up, and ridiculously overpowered.