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Dear Rito, you really could have done better with that Shen rework.

QQinfinity··39 votes·3,407 views

I applaud you for even thinking of having Shen get a rework, and I really like his new appearance. His new kit has a lot of interesting new things, but the problem is that its very hard to make those new things happen.

His combo is currently hard locked into E -> Q -> W to do ANYTHING for the entire game! I have not seen any other champion who has its combo entirely hard locked so HARD that they can't do anything other than the designated combo in this entire game. Not even Amumu who is almost forced to start every fight with Q has it this bad!

You can't use Q to harass anyone unless your enemies are stupid enough to let you position it directly into their faces (not that the Q actually deals damage anyway, it gives you an attack boost and a slow which has very debatable usefulness).

Not even trying to talk about "How are you going to ever position it correctly when your enemy is either an assassin or just someone who has multiple dashes with almost nothing to punish them with."

Its already stupidly hard to taunt a Ahri Akali Ekko Fizz Kalista Kennen Kindred Leblanc LeeSin Lucian MasterYi Riven Teemo Vayne Yasuo Zed , so how is anyone going to hit those people with a Q that goes nowhere but to yourself? I would rather smack myself with my new Q, hitting myself in the face until I die from self-harm, rather than play such an unwieldy champion against them.

And please tell me how the triple hit for Q is going to give any pressure on lane with AP scaling of all things? Not to mention a a BADLY scaled AP scaling? 0.15 and 0.2? Really? I mean, sure; making max health % damage scaleable is pretty good. But its Shen we are talking about. Who can actually play Shen with no tank items when most AP items are not suitable choices for him?

If you were trying to promote a more damage/bruiser oriented Shen then you have done an abysmal job at that. The original Shen kit which has remained unchanged for several years beside the nerfs and buffs would have been better suited to go full AP damage build than this new kit, and that's saying something!

~~You designed this champion as a tank! ~~Edit: Okay, you designed this champion as a Fighter. The least you could have done would be to make more than one ability and one passive scale with actual damage like AD or a skill with flat AP damage, or let the Q have the effect of chipping away defensive stats so Shen has some semblance of fighting chance against tanky champions.

Shen is probably the worst fighter atm. Here is a list of all the fighters and their strength:

(Note: These are only FIGHTERS, I'm not talking about mages or marksmen or tanks. Just throwing the entire fighter list on here)

Aatrox Sustain, sustainable damage, can resurrect once with passive, has high attack speed, good scaling, and one mobility/CC as well as slow. Better than Shen.

Blitzcrank We usually see this guy as support, but is still counted as a fighter since that is his secondary role. Shen has one single taunt, while this guy has a long range pull, a knock up, and an AOE 0.5 second silence. This guy also has freakishly good scalings (1.0 aka 100% on Q and R, and his E deals double of his attack damage so technically it is also possible to build AD although no one does), and a very threatening presence coupled with movement speed attack speed boost and passive tankiness. Better than Shen.

Darius Do I even need to explain why Darius is so much better than Shen, with the way Shen is right now? Better than Shen.

Diana Mage/Fighter. She has been nerfed multiple times, but is still a potent champion in the right hands. Her Q scales 70% with ap, and she can dash at least twice if played correctly. Her damage is quite high, and with the right items can also be quite tanky. Add a Zhonyas and you get an annoying mage assassin who jumps in, burst people down, stand still with a zhonya, then kill people again. Her shield can be refreshed and scales with her main stat: AP. Better than Shen.

DrMundo If you haven't seen a monstrous Dr. Mundo top lane, then something must have gone terribly wrong with you. I personally played this bad man and rekt most top lanes. Even if I got a bad match up (Fiora for one) as long as I build tanky and act as the meat shield for the front line, there is still a lot of things Mundo can do. His Q always deals 25% of the target's current health, which means he can still win against tanks, and the 40% slow for 2 seconds is really powerful. It has pretty much no cost and can be spammed indefinitely with a very decent range and missile speed. His W can reduce crowd control duration and deal some damage, and the reason we can see him top lane again was because of his buffed E. Better than Shen.

Ekko abilities have very high scale, deals extra magic attack with passive, and has very decent mobility. He can also troll people with Zhonya and Ultimate. Better than Shen.

Elise Do I even need to explain why Elise is deadlier than Shen? The only thing Shen is better at is the fact that he can taunt multiple people while Elise can only stun one person, yet Elise stun has a very long range. Better than Shen.

Fiora Not going to even bother explaining this one. An insulting comparison. Fiora might not be the front line since she isn't truly tanky and has no CC, but her true damage and mobility as well as AD ensures her superiority when compared to Shen. Better than Shen.

Fizz If you have not been trolled by this guy yet, then you haven't really experienced League of Fleas. Better than Shen.

Gangplank BARRELS! BOOM BOOM BOOM. CANNON FIRE! BLAST BLAST BLAST. ORANGES! NOM NOM NOM. Do I need to say more? Better than Shen.

Garen Long duration silence, able to reduce damage received by 30%, high damage with spin to win, and an executing ultimate. Let's not forget his passive... Better than Shen.

Gnar Deals % damage with passive as mini gnar, and has multitudes of tricks to employ as mini as well as big gnar. Probably not the best tank for front lines, but his ultimate alone warrants a spot in the front for the "crowd" control. Better than Shen.

Gragas Haven't seen this guy for a while, and according to LolKing, Gragas's win rate averages around 45% while the Old Shen kit was around 51%. (There is a comical plummet in popularity in the Shen chart though.) Gragas can build AP because he scales well, has some sort of sustain with his passive and W, and a big crowd control with his ultimate. Shen doesn't have any form of sustain anymore if you discount the energy return from E. Maybe he is better than Shen? Need more info.

Hecarim Better than Shen. Illaoi Better than Shen. Irelia Better than Shen, LETS NERF IRELIA JarvanIV Er... I am not quite sure actually. Jarvan is a pretty horrible top laner right now. Jax Better than Shen. Jayce Better than Shen. Kayle Better than Shen. Khazix Better than Shen. LeeSin Are you kidding me? Definitely better than Shen. Malphite Better than Shen. At least this guy has scalings! And a very reliable ultimate. MasterYi Better than Shen. Master YEE Mordekaiser Not quite sure, but this guy has actual scales and deals much more damage than Shen. Edit: Okay, someone said its better. Nasus Better than Shen. Let's farm all game long. Nautilus Better than Shen. Loads of CC. Nidalee Are you kidding me? Definitely better than Shen. Nocturne Better than Shen. Though this guy is pretty much a glass cannon most of the time. At least he has scales, right? Nunu This is hilarious, but this guy is better than Shen. My lord how Shen has fallen. Olaf Better than Shen. Pantheon Better than Shen. Poppy Better than new Shen. She might not have been better than the Old Shen though. Quinn Are you kidding me? Definitely better than Shen. Rammus Better than new Shen. Probably the same level as the Old one. RekSai Better than Shen, by miles. Renekton Better than Shen, by miles. Rengar Better than Shen, although this guy probably never builds tank. Who needs tankiness when you can burst down an entire team? Riven Are you joking? Rumble Better than Shen, by miles. Ryze Better than Shen. Oh god this guy is scary. Sejuani Better than Shen. She can't fly across the map but is much more threatening than Shen. Shyvana Maybe better than Shen? I am not quite sure, need more information. Singed Maybe? Sion Better than Shen. He could run across the map with his ulti, and has very nice damage even if built as a tank. Skarner Better than Shen. Swain Better than Shen, by miles. Talon Better than Shen, by miles. Taric The same as Shen. If Taric is unpopular, then Shen is going to become very unpopular very very soon. Thresh Better than Shen, by miles. Trundle Better than Shen, by miles, even after all the recent nerfs. Tryndamere Are you kidding me? Udyr Not quite sure, not enough info. Urgot I haven't seen this guy in ages! No comment. Vi Better than Shen. Volibear Better than Shen. Warwick Better than Shen in the sense that a fed Warwick is much much scarier than a fed Shen, especially the new Shen. MonkeyKing Better than Shen, by miles. XinZhao Better than Shen, by miles. Yasuo Shen can't even reach his toes. Yorick Who was this guy again? Zac Who was this guy again? Zed Better than Shen.

Personally, my advice on fixing this abomination of a Q skill is to change it into this:

(This will be staple) Twilight Assault: Cost 120/110/100/90/80 energy ACTIVE- Shen sends his Spirit Blade to the target location and deals 60/100/140/180/220 (+60% aka 0.6 AP scaling) magic damage to all enemies along the path. (Minions take reduced damage, reduced by how much will be somewhere between 30% to 50%, rito decide) This skill can be activated again for half the cost to recall the blade to Shen's location. Enemies can only be damaged by Twilight Assault once.

----changeable parts----

If a champion was damaged by Twilight Assault, his next three basic attacks within 8 seconds deal extra 3/3.5/4/4.5/5% of target's max health as magic damage. (+1% bonus health scaling)

If a champion was damaged by Twilight Assault, slow them by 35% for 2 seconds. His next three basic attacks within 8 seconds will deal 3/3.5/4/4.5/5% of target's max health as magic damage. (not scaleable)

If a champion was damaged by Twilight Assault, his next three basic attacks within 8 seconds will deal 3/3.5/4/4.5/5% of target's max health as magic damage. (not scaleable) and reduce the target's armor and magic resist by 10% for 4 seconds every hit. (max 3 stacks)

I like the dodging buff for W and the passive energy return when hitting people with Q and E on the new E, but those two could use rooms of improvement as well.

W Spirit's refuge: Shen primes his Spirit Blade for 2 seconds, causing it to project a protective zone around it for 1.75 seconds if he or an allied champion move nearby, granting allies in the zone 100% dodge chance.

-> Shen primes his Spirit Blade for 2 seconds, causing it to project a protective zone around it for 1.75 seconds if he or an allied champion move nearby, granting allies in the zone 100% dodge chance and reduce the duration of control effects by 30/35/40/45/50%. OR reduce the traveling speed of enemy projectiles by 50/55/60/65/70%.

E Shadow Dash : PASSIVE- Shadow Dash's and Twilight Assault boosted basic attack's damage recovers 30 / 35 / 40 energy. When Shen taunts a champion, increase his movement speed by 50 when moving towards visible enemy champions for 2 seconds.

PS: I have been waiting for the Yasuo mobility nerf for a very long time. Instead of letting him have infinite number of dashes as long as there are infinite amount of new targets to dash to, why not give it a 'stock' function like Vi E, Vel'koz W, Akali R, etc? 3~5 seems like a reasonable number when compared to being able to dash at least 6 times in lane.

54 Comments

Wolfess12 votes

new shen can get shoved out of lane way hard. no sustain and his new W only lasts 1.75 seconds and is on an 18 second cooldown, and his qi barrier requires you to spam abilities. Any ranged top laner will harass the unholy crap out of new shen.

Old shen may have felt archaic, but that was probably due to just old animations and model. If they wanted to make him look a bit newer and fresher, they should have made a small visual change to his Q and made him throw Qi Kunai instead. would probably look cooler than throwing one of his swords. His other abilities just a bit of a visual polishing up and his new model is actually doing well. They could have had his qi barrier reworked to be the same as the new one where it scales with hp. His old kit wasn't bad, just a tad visually dusty.

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

{quoted}

new shen can get shoved out of lane way hard. no sustain and his new W only lasts 1.75 seconds and is on an 18 second cooldown, and his qi barrier requires you to spam abilities. Any ranged top laner will harass the unholy crap out of new shen.

Old shen may have felt archaic, but that was probably due to just old animations and model. If they wanted to make him look a bit newer and fresher, they should have made a small visual change to his Q and made him throw Qi Kunai instead. would probably look cooler than throwing one of his swords. His other abilities just a bit of a visual polishing up and his new model is actually doing well. They could have had his qi barrier reworked to be the same as the new one where it scales with hp. His old kit wasn't bad, just a tad visually dusty.

actually here is the funny joke...most top lanes that happen to not be Riven (who shen might have a chance against new one) actually have either range over him,an actual ranged skill and AA range increases even if its only 25 units

QQinfinity2 votes

Now that you mention it, I actually wouldn't doubt it if someone told me Zilean is better than Shen.

Meep Man3 votes

New Shen can be shoved out of lane easily? Then you arent using your passive correctly.

Sure, ranged will do what ranged do, but Shen is decently resiliant if you can play him well.

Wolfess2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r6TvJvab,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-02-04T12:50:46.116+0000)

New Shen can be shoved out of lane easily? Then you arent using your passive correctly.

Sure, ranged will do what ranged do, but Shen is decently resiliant if you can play him well.

no, having to use his other abilities just to proc his shield is not really viable.

if you're really winning against ranged top then your opponent is bad and doesn't know how to harass. a real ranged top will wait for a good opportunity and make him waste his 10 second cooldown shield and either just watch him waste his energy on it or wait till after it expires to unload on him.

QQinfinity2 votes

If it was a Yasuo, then people will try to proc his shield before they jump on him.

Now, the problem being, you either cannot pop the shield due to his windwall, or you simply can't reach him due to his mobility. Even if you DID pop the shield, there is still the question on how you are going to burst Mr. Infi-dash down before you die.

Lay man's term: Its hard to pop Yasuo Shield. Its hard to follow up on that too.

Looking back at Shen, its laughably easy to make him waste shield, then simply tea bag him to death.

ayNigerianPrince3 votes

I would have rather them turned q into a skillshot than do this to him. He's even more boring to play and does 0 damage with very little reward for building tank.

He4rtkiller7 votes

Spirit sword does not feel right. It's there to make his kit more complicated and it serves as a tool that allows Shen some extra power if used in a certain way and to allow his opponent a way to avoid that (counterplay). The sword serves it's purpose but feels forced on and not much fun.

QQinfinity2 votes

Well, suddenly being able to have a sword floating around isn't really a bad thing. The problem being, why have a sword floating around when you can't do anything with it?

Not being able to send the thing into any direction at all is an epic fail. It will always be behind Shen. The only way to get behind someone is to use your E (or flash). It your can't just 'land'. You need to be over the enemy champion because having E land right on top of them won't have Q in range to hit them most of the time.

Deus Imperator6 votes

So Shen went from "Boring but practical" To "Flashy but useless"?

Should i even consider buying him anymore?.....

Satanstein3 votes

No.

EmollientNut01 votes

Not even a little bit. He's worse than every other autoattack based champion.

Paroe4 votes

  1. Shens E is currently 'bugged' - the change was actually unintentional. (but yes, it was changed)

  2. Shen was reworked into a fighter, he is no longer 'designed' to be a tank

I agree that keeping the AP scaling - the very damn thing that should have been changed on his original kit in the first place - is extremely stupid. It should really gain 1% per 500~ bonus HP. thats about a percent per item, and is a good place.

... Also the armor and armor per level nerfs need to be reverted.

QQinfinity1 votes

I see, so Shen was reworked into a fighter. Thanks for the clarification.

I guess I need to edit my post and say why Shen is probably the worst fighter ever...

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Shens E is currently 'bugged' - the change was actually unintentional. (but yes, it was changed)

  2. Shen was reworked into a fighter, he is no longer 'designed' to be a tank

I agree that keeping the AP scaling - the very damn thing that should have been changed on his original kit in the first place - is extremely stupid. It should really gain 1% per 500~ bonus HP. thats about a percent per item, and is a good place.

... Also the armor and armor per level nerfs need to be reverted.

his HP pool is also quite low i had about 400 extra hp worth in items and a malphite ONLY HAD 100 LESS HP THEN I(approximate) he didn't even have any hp items

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

  1. Shens E is currently 'bugged' - the change was actually unintentional. (but yes, it was changed)

  2. Shen was reworked into a fighter, he is no longer 'designed' to be a tank

Yea, his E is bugged, but Shen is a tank/fighter, like Poppy, not a fighter/tank like a juggernaut.

Also, does the OP realize Blitz is a tank/fighter, not an actual support? He's just designed to duo lane.

QQinfinity1 votes

" We usually see this guy as support, but is still counted as a fighter since that is his secondary role. "

In which part did I even mention that 'support' was his primary role? I only said that this guy is usually seen as a support ._.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

" We usually see this guy as support, but is still counted as a fighter since that is his secondary role. "

In which part did I even mention that 'support' was his primary role? I only said that this guy is usually seen as a support ._.

You ain't wrong...

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Actually Blitz was designed as a top laner (hence the good ratios and AS steroid) and was just taken bot by the PLAYERS due to his CC and kill potential with an ally. Riot did then balance him for duo lane but that was not his intended place to go.

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Chocola,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r6TvJvab,comment-id=000000020001,timestamp=2016-02-04T22:38:55.370+0000)

Actually Blitz was designed as a top laner (hence the good ratios and AS steroid) and was just taken bot by the PLAYERS due to his CC and kill potential with an ally. Riot did then balance him for duo lane but that was not his intended place to go.

Look at his reveal. He was designed to duo lane...with other tanks and fighters. There WAS a time where they had "double bruisers" in a lane iirc.

MrWasjig4 votes

One of the biggest issues I have with new Shen is that they have most definitely nerfed Shadow Dash. They said they've left it alone but I'm calling bullshit on that. It is way, WAY harder to hit than it used to be because the hitbox is minuscule. Every time I've played him I'll miss a Shadow Dash, still thinking I'm playing Old Shen only to miss by the smallest amount, because most of the times I scrape someone's shoulder and the game decides "What!? No I wasn't looking, doesn't count!" Meanwhile I would have nailed it with Old Shen.

The Taunt along with his Ult are what Shen was picked for (outside of his tankyness) and even now his taunt is worse off because it's impossible to hit unless someone is in your face, which defeats the purpose if it being a dash. Might as well just play Rammus at least that can't miss. It was already a challenge to hit, but now it's just taking the piss.

QQinfinity2 votes

No wonder I was missing my taunts more than usual ._.

Well, they got rid of his tankiness, skewered his taunt. So that just leaves his ultimate to be the reason to pick him? I mean, if I needed some form of global presence, Shen would still be at the bottom of my list.

HoukagoFapTime3 votes

This also leads to an incredibly boring champ. As if the old shen wasn't boring enough.

HellhamerX3 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se55YLN7R2M Actually is recommended you use Q>E>W so the sword travels while you move to the position the taunted enemy is, triggering the passive of the Q by going through the enemy and then auto. "those attacks each deal additional 2% (+ 0.5% per 100 AP) of target's maximum health bonus damage and gain 50% bonus attack speed." Shen summoner 4

QQinfinity1 votes

That was interesting to know. And depending on how far the Q is, by using it after E, it might miss since it will take longer to travel.

So, whats the difference between QEW and EQW? You still need to have that big ass useless sword smack your enemies before you can do anything, and for your big ass useless sword to smack your enemies at all you need to position with E or waste flash, because people won't be standing still for your sword to smack them. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

The point being, you're not going to hit that Q under your own volition.

Ever.

Sorry for the sarcasm. Not aimed towards you.

HellhamerX1 votes

"Enemies the blade collides with are Slow icon slowed by 35% when moving away from Shen for the next 2 seconds."

Maybe new Shen doesn't have sustain, i really don't play by wat Rito says, i prefer him as a tank support that blocks the autos if you play around positioning, go rescue others with ult and start fights with E by punishing enemies that position badly. Really just forget about the "FIGHTER" Shen, Rito even says that ad Mid don't have to build ad pen because they would probably be phasing an ap Mid in lane...but that is ridiculous the game is not just the lane phase and no Zed is gonna ever be able to de a PENTA without ad pen later...

Maybe Shen is a fighter, but that works better around team fights that involve everybody hitting everybody and not directly 1v1s

QQinfinity2 votes

That slow is the biggest joke I've seen in this game, and we had the 6 Black Cleaver build back in the day.

Who wants to move AWAY from a Shen when he has no damage Q_Q Not unless you had bunch of teammates.

But if you chose to lane as Shen, then that means you are definitely going to lose the lane. Enemy top laner is going to roam for free since Shen can't push towers whatsoever now, and your other lanes are going to suffer as well. End result: Your entire team is behind and enemy are all fed. No one wants to move away from that tasty Shen when he is such a free kill.

In the end I was told to try him out as jungle. It was slightly better.... only slightly better than top. Shen ganks are really unreliable without ulti, and enemy team will just snowball because Shen has such a weak jungling presence.

HellhamerX2 votes

im telling you Shen is no fighter, Shen is much better as a TANK SUPPORT, that taunts and block auto for his adc thats why positioning the sword is currently the only skill needed for playing him as a support champ.

Karma Deified3 votes

Gameplay aside, that giant sword floating around is a thematic (I don't know a word that describes failure via IMMENSE stupidity).

The whole rework in general seems like someone had some random ideas for a new champ, but not enough to make a decent kit, so they just decided to mess with Shen since an Ionian with him in the lore was being released.

The sword doesn't even fit Shen visually for Urgot's sake.

Filgaia2 votes

Yep that´s my take on it too. Also he looks less ninjalike than before the giant blade (both the ki blade and his sword on the back) don´t fit a ninja theme at all.

KICK OUT AT 23 votes

Seems like they can't make one good rework (poppy) without having 3 bad ones after it.

I played shen a lot before the rework, he could be picked into every matchup. I found him to be very fun and even carried a few games.

Played him for a couple games now, and I gotta say that sword thing sure is an annoyance. He gets countered by so many things, shield is hard to proc. Just unfun and bad.

Mooninites2 votes

It felt rushed and unnecessary. The old shen had a very archaic kit and you could feel it, but I think there are other champions that should have been higher priority on the rework list like warwick. I agree they could have done better

EmollientNut02 votes

I kinda like that as a catchphrase now, "Better than Shen." Since Everything with range higher than 200 pretty much just is.

However you forgot to mention Riot basically gave him Mordekaiser's Q and released him, and even after all the nerfs Morde's still scales and does better damage. (Both even come with a shield, originality at it's finest!!)

Mordekaiser ....................... Better than Shen.

QQinfinity3 votes

Well, there was the "Let's nerf Irelia" joke. So I guess we could use "Better than Shen" for a new trend?

But seriously though, I thought Vladimir had the most nerfs? How did Nerfing Irelia become a gag again?

EmollientNut01 votes

It's been a thing pretty much forever, since the champ's release haha. I havent seen Vlad's nerf list, but I could see it being insanely overbearing based on his point-to-click/autoaim nature.

That being said, I like our new trend.

Better than Shen

EmollientNut01 votes

I saw your edit giving me credit for this. Strong work [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Death by Kayn2 votes

You just really don't like the champions in this game much, do you bud

QQinfinity2 votes

Can you even understand the term 'comparison'?

I play more than half of all the champions mentioned above, and I quite like them.

I heard someone say that you needed more salt. Here, have some salt.

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/2-04-2016/7O0uyl.gif

You're welcome.

Over Innsmouth2 votes

Sorry, while I agree with most of what you're saying (although I personally am very happy with the Shen rework).

You said that Aatrox was better than Shen.

You said that Aatrox was better than anybody.

QQinfinity2 votes

Hmm? I don't quite... Oh wait, I get it. You're saying Aatrox is simply horrible to the point that Aatrox being better than someone is a miracle xDDD

Well, it definitely is a miracle, for Aatrox. Its an absolute disaster for Shen.

But its the truth though!

Let's compare passives... Shen has a 10 sec shield that can only be triggered by wasting one of his ability's CD and cost, and the shield actually isn't all that big. Aatrox can gain a lot of attack speed from his passive, and can resurrect once if he dies. I think Aatrox wins in the passive department. Aatrox 1:0 Shen

Shen has a taunt (that had its hit box shrunk) with 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 seconds for cool down. Aatrox's Q has 16 / 15 / 14 / 13 / 12 seconds cool down. So in the cool down department of their main (and only CC) they are pretty much tied (one having less CD on early rank and another having higher CD in early rank)

Aatrox Q range is 650, the circle hit box he lands on are both 225 / 75 respectively, and it still deals damage regardless of whether or not it hits the center. Shen E range is 600. Aatrox 2:0 Shen

Aatrox Q damage is 70 / 115 / 160 / 205 / 250 and also scales 60% with AD. Shen E is 50 / 85 / 120 / 155 / 190 and scales with 12% bonus health. Aatrox 3:0 Shen

Aatrox W allows him to switch between dealing damage in the expense of health or stealing health every three hits, the healing is also tripled if Aatrox is below half health. This can make him tankier than Shen due to sustainability, and he can also deal more damage than Shen's Q 3 basic attack boosters since Aatrox W can be triggered indefinitely until the player switches modes. Aatrox 4:0 Shen

And then Aatrox E is a ranged poke that can slow enemies by 40% for 1.75 / 2 / 2.25 / 2.5 / 2.75 seconds. It also scales with BOTH AD and AP for 60%. Aatrox 5:0 Shen

Shen W can dodge auto attacks? Aatrox is just going to life steal everything back...

Shen ultimate can fly across maps to assist allies? Take teleport on Aatrox (Yes, I know its a horrible idea). Even if Shen teleport backs to lane and tries to out farm you or push towers, he won't be able to do any of those things, so you still win in that department.

Game, set and Match.

Over Innsmouth1 votes

I know that Aatrox will beat Shen in a 1v1, I was mostly joking. Aatrox is almost tailor-made to 1v1, his stats are just such garbage that against anyone else with that design in mind he falls really quickly.

Against Shen though? Shen's entire damage output is reliant on his Q, whereas Aatrox has 2 AS steroids, on-hit damages and heals and more damage in his Q and E.

You don't need to convince me of anything mate, I was just commenting on the absolutely atrocious state our resident so-called War God is in.

QQinfinity1 votes

Ahahaha! But seriously though, not just in terms of Aatrox fighting against Shen. I am just comparing the two champions and their functions, and Aatrox wins hands down. Why pick Shen when even Aatrox does it better than Shen, right?

Over Innsmouth1 votes

Thematics and my personal love of him aside, I'd still pick Shen over a lot of Champions. Saving/supporting the carries, taunting and peeling and just being a tanky motherfucker in general are huge pluses in my book.

I'd pick Shen over a lot of tanks/fighters, but again that's just me.

optimalroat2 votes

I agree, the new Shen has a really really really flawed kit, he is really underwhelming, and comparatively to other 'fighters' if riot wants to make him a 'fighter' he's on the lower side of the spectrum, his kit is just bland, underwhelming, and nothing special nor reliable is contained in his kit, it seems like they tried to keep him thematically the same, but at the same time overthought so many changed, and made his skills far from special, unique, or at this point even useful.

Let's begin with his Q, I don't even know what it's called anymore, I know it used to be called Vorpal blade, I probably didn't spell the first part right, but oh well, it used to be a poking spell with sustain, or something to farm with if you were against a ranged opponent top. Now it has three empowered attacks, really riot? More three hit things?? That aside, it's super underwhelming, it slows an enemy if your invisible blade thing which is his passive, which, admittedly, I think it is pretty damn unique, it's just the rest of his kit. Then it gives you three empowered auto attacks? Couldn't they do something in which like it resets your auto attack, maybe gives you some sustain when you hit things with the three empowered auto attacks, or maybe even a speed boost after those three auto attacks, it just seems really really underwhelming, bland, and for the most part, useless.

His W, it used to be a tiny shield that would block an auto attack or two, then in late game block a turrent shot, or some minion aggro when taunting an enemy, which I think is great that they moved his shield into his passive, I always thought the shield shouldn't take up a whole skill, well, If there was a passive to the spell, which as I recall, didn't, then yeah, it wasn't that much of a spell, which now blocks enemy auto attacks in the area when people are in it, which is a pretty good idea, but it doesn't last long, and it's pretty confusing, wouldn't it be a better approach of no one could auto attack in that area? Like Imagine if Shen get's a 4 man taunt, then casts his W around all of the enemies, the couldn't auto attack me, or the enemies, while the people out of the radius could auto attack them inside the area. I don't know, something along those lines, something more should be done with the W.

Then his E, I am so glad riot kept as a taunt, it's one of my favorite spells in the game, and it's just a really cool spell, nothing I am complaining about here, as riot didn't change anything serious about it, I have no idea if they changed the range, hitbox, or duration of the taunt, but as far as I know, I am satisfied with it.

His ultimate, is the same, which I would imagine would remain the same, I just love the spell stand united, making a 1v1 a 2v1, or a 2v2 into a 3v2, and my favorite part is you can ult onto champions with stealth and then when they reappear, a shen will be there too.

I also absolutely love his new splash arts, I have every shen skin now, I was originally missing warlord, and bloodmoon shen pre-rework, but decided to get both of them, both of them were on sale too, warlord on my revel shop, and bloodmoon was on the skin sale.

I played so much shen pre-mastery system, so I haven't racked up too many mastery point with him, he's really close to level 5, I haven't played him pre-rework as much as I should've, I moved onto other, more flashy champions, but always will I remember the old shen, and remember how much fun he was and I hope riot ends up fixing, or making him more useful with him, and his skills.

anyways, peace !! [slayer-jinx-catface]

IsmokeOregano1 votes

Its already stupidly hard to taunt a Teemo ?

QQinfinity2 votes

Teemo attacking range 500

Move Quick: BONUS MOVEMENT SPEED: 10 / 14 / 18 / 22 / 26% ACTIVE: Teemo doubles his bonus movement speed for 3 seconds and prevents it from being disabled by damage.

Boots of Speed +25 flat movement speed

Have fun trying to land your E on him. Otherwise, there is of course the ctrl+2 for taunt.

IsmokeOregano1 votes

i prefer ctrl+6 lol

Aziriously1 votes

So you're completely disregarding the fact that Shen can TP+shield an ally from across the map? Or apply huge split pushing map pressure mid-late game, potentially forcing the enemy team to give up baron? Or the fact that his W is, while linear in terms of the order in his combo, a very strong ability against certain champions that no other champ can offer to his team? Or that the new Shen is likely a better jungler than top laner anyway due to be very matchup dependent?

QQinfinity1 votes

Since top Shen is going to be extremely match up dependent, and almost always lose now, what is flying across the map going to do?

The whole point of flying across map is to help your teammate when they are in trouble. But let's not mention how stupid the Shen ulti works with AP ratio, let's talk about what Shen can do after flying to someone's rescue.

Taunt the enemy? Done. Probably land the Q and deal some sort of damage? Done. Probably let your teammates dodge basic attacks? Done.

Let's not talk about whether you missed your taunt because enemy team are fleas and jump too much, or your Q dealing no damage at all or you can't get close to attack them, or how enemy probably will end up using abilities to damage you and disregard your 100% dodge buff. After Shen's done all of that, there is no point to his presence anymore... Plus Shen is almost always in a disadvantage in top lane, so he will either be really weak, or has no items at all. Flying across the map to help someone might make things even worse for the other lanes. In the Old Shen, at least I can make something good will happen, if not, I can at least walk out alive. New Shen can't do anything great unless the circumstances are heavily in your favor, and he probably can't walk out alive since his HP pool has been reduced by a lot and he is behind on items.

Secondly, most people will TP back to lane, and either try to push the lane while the enemy top laner is away, or occupy top to stop them push too far. So, how is New Shen even going to do both of that? In Old Shen, there is at least some form of damage with his Q and passive Ki Strike. In New Shen you have to walk right up close to use up your Q basic attack, that incidentally costs 180~120 of your 400 energy bar, only hits 3 times and deals less damage than the original vorpal blade, and can easily be zoned if enemy top lane is ranged.

Let's forget for a moment that enemy top laner might be ranged or is too threatening for you to actually farm. How are you going to push the minion wave ahead when you don't do much damage? And how are you going to damage the tower without Ki Strike? With Old Shen, people might have at least brought attack speed runes because it can scale with the Ki strike passive and vorpal blade sustain. Now, there is no point in bringing attack speed runes, and there is still no way to damage the tower other than to patiently basic attack it. Pushing your minion wave when said champion doesn't even have some form of good damage and damaging a tower with basic attack when a champion that has no AD items is agonizingly slow. Shen can't even stop enemy player from pushing!

So what's the point of new Shen using TP+ulti? There's pretty much no point...

And yes, jungle Shen is better with the new Shen.

Shifune1 votes

Bring back my jungle Shen.

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