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A 1M mastery One trick's thoughts - Upcoming Diana rework.

Moon Mom·6/19/2017, 10:07:32 PM·47 votes·3,299 views

Hello,

Let me start by saying I am a 1M mastery one trick on the lunar goddess herself. I've peaked at Platinum 4 season 6. I have learned the champion well enough to execute some difficult combos (RQ, R flash Q, RQ flash, RQ Zhonyas), and what her exact limits are when fighting. I have several thoughts on the champion, and what she needs to fit a clear role.

Let's preface by recognizing a simple fact: Diana's classifications in Riot's eyes is a fighter, not an assassin. The goal of the proposed rework gives a general idea of how they could throw her in the correct direction.

  1. Split up her burst pattern, and lower the overall damage.
  2. Add a delay between certain abilities (W, for example).

The numbers I'll be listing aren't the best representation of balance necessarily, but I feel this will bring her more in line with being a fighter rather than an assassin.

Passive ability: Moonsilver Blade.

On live, the ability itself needs no changes. I have noted for one adjustment; however.

  • Diana no longer gains bonus attack speed; base attack speed and scaling are adjusted to allow for better scaling with attack speed items.

    It is extremely important to note that her bonus attack speed in her passive tacks on low attack speed and attack speed per level. Removing this would let her shift into more builds that focus on her auto attacks.

Q Ability: Crescent Strike.

  • Diana swings her blade, dealing damage in an arc. This ability may be cast twice. Once Counterclockwise, and once clockwise (live). There is a one second delay before she can cast Q again.
  • Ability cost: 55 Mana at all ranks.
  • Ability Damage - Deals 50/70/90/100/120 (+35 Percent of her AP) - Same damage on both casts.

This change does two very important things for Diana.

  1. This slows any burst patterns down - Q damage is now cut in half. She still has the benefit of clearing minion waves via two casts.
  2. This allows her for more sticking potential as she can apply the moonlight debuff twice.

W ability: Pale Cascade

W: Pale Cascade. - Diana summons three orbs from the sky that surround her. No cast time - takes .5 seconds to fall into her.

  • New scaling: For each orb popped: 45/50/65/85/95 (+15 % AP) magic damage. Lasts Five seconds
  • Shield absorbs: 40/55/70/85/100 (+20 percent AP + 3% max HP) per orb
  • Mana cost decreased: 45 / 55 / 65 / 75 / 85

This allows for the following:

  1. No more shield burst - Diana will have a small delay before it falls down around her.

  2. The shield absorbs more damage when building into a more diver oriented AP build (think item 3027 item 3001 item 3030 item 3116. This will encourage her to build resist instead of burst.

  3. A decreased mana cost lets her use it more often in the jungle without running OOM.

E Ability: Lunar Rush

  • Diana dashes forward to the enemy champion dealing 80 / 100 / 120 /140 / 160 + 30 percent of her AP
  • Mana cost increased: 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 mana per cast.
  • Cooldown adjusted: 22 / 19/ 16 / 13 / 10 seconds.

Changes result in:

  1. Dianas point and click ability does significantly less damage, and will mainly be used to gap close only.
  2. Mana cost is increased - I'm hoping this will force her into building more items that give her mana item 3027 item 3030 item 3110 .
  3. Cooldown is adjusted, more incentive to use it as engage/stick potential even if Q misses.

R Ability: Moonfall

  • Diana leaps into the air for half a second and slams her sword into the ground; casting the power of the moon onto the ground below her. This ability: Reveals, draws in, slows, and grounds all nearby enemies in the area. While Diana fights in the area, she enjoys flat bonus resistances for each enemy she pulls. This ability will pull everyone directly into the center of Diana.

  • Mana cost is 100 at all ranks

  • Cooldown is 150 / 130 / 110

  • Bonus resistances are 10 armor / MR per enemy pulled (This is a change I'm willing to scrape out).

  • AOE Size: 800 units

This gives the following to Diana:

  1. A clear engage tool, and something that makes her unique.
  2. Power budget in her ultimate

I'm not expecting a red response, but I'd like to at least hear thoughts on the basic abilities from the community. I really do love this champ.

Although I'm sad she won't remain an assassin, I know Diana can find an identity as a fighter.

TL;DR - Remove Q burst, make it two casts instead of one (one clockwise, one counter-clockwise, half the damage on each cast), add a delay for W, Switch E and R around. Nerf the dash damage, and give her real power budget in an ultimate.

Let me know your thoughts below.

Edits: Adjusted R cast range and cast time.

  • Adjusted R cast range again, slightly less than Q range.
  • Shield damage up some.

72 Comments

NineTailedMystic6/20/2017, 1:08:00 AM12 votes

This ability: Reveals, draws in, slows, and grounds all nearby enemies in the area.

Stop with Grounded shit. I wouldn't have a problem if it didn't stop Flash, but it does. Right now, this is an Orianna ult on steroids, without the counterplay of the ball that you can't even preemptively Flash without being on the outer edge already which is basically out of a teamfight's range as is. Legit, pick anyone with good AoE like Lux, Brand, or Ziggs for Mages, or even picks like Darius and Jinx would absolutely decimate teamfights with a Diana just Flash E R'ing the enemy team.

TóxicoChicoGuapo6/20/2017, 2:45:38 AM6 votes

i like it actually. keeps her mostly the same while giving her ultimate pre 6 so she actually is a threat.

the problem, though, is that diana without burst has no reason to be played.

you created a similar kit to hers right now, but just focused a bit too hard on making her a bruiser. which is what she should be. but she needs more tools that are better than her current kit if she's going to be a bruiser.

pre 6 if she dashes in she has no burst and pre scaling items won't have any sustained damage either so she just straight up sucks in that situation.

I think the rework should give her new tools while keeping the core ones that diana players identify with. whatever that may be for you, I wouldn't know. like the ideas here are super good, but I just feel like she would suck pretty bad after them.

HalcyonDweller6/19/2017, 10:58:25 PM4 votes

Great reasoning and ideas. You've successfully addressed most of the issues that her kit has while providing good explanations as to why they were a problem and how your solution fixes them.

I especially like that you switched E and R. It always felt like it should have been that way, Moonfall was just so cool and impactful!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Good work!

Targon6/20/2017, 2:27:35 AM4 votes

I'm a little concerned about some of the proposed changes to be honest. Reducing some of her damage potential with delays and reduced AP ratios while increasing her engage substantially might force her into tank builds, and that could cause a lot of frustration with her (similarly to how problematic tank Ekko was).

Personally, I love playing Diana in an assassin play style, though, I think it'd be cool if Diana could be played as both an assassin and as a fighter. The problem is that AP-building fighters/bruisers don't really have much of a role in the game. AP itemization is limited. If you build a lot of HP/AP items and tankier items, then you'll probably have a hard time cracking more than 150-200 AP mid game and 300-350 AP late game. A Diana with little AP and reduced scalings on some of her abilities won't be that threatening. So Diana might have a hard time being relevant unless her base damages are over-tuned. But if Diana's base damages are overtuned (I think the base damage on W might be a little too high on the later ranks), then Diana will be more inclined to build full tank as mentioned above. It's kind of like how AP Gragas is pretty much non-existent and why tank Gragas is fairly strong at the moment.

Don't get me wrong though. I like some of the ideas you presented. I think Moonfall should be certainly be tweaked. It's a strong ability for 1v1s but pretty lacklustre otherwise.

For the Diana rework, I was kind of hoping they'd tie some special effects into her moonlight debuff. Maybe they could make her abilities have an additional effect for enemies affected with moonlight.

Over Innsmouth6/20/2017, 2:41:15 AM4 votes

I'm down for this, as a Diana enthusiast (she's my secondary Jungler after Warwick) and also Mastery 7, I'd love to see her more Bruiser/Fighter-ish and less burst or be bursted.

Great work!

Carl Grimes TWD16/20/2017, 12:57:00 AM3 votes

I'll make this as simple as possible. All I'm seeing are nerfs. P: Weaker early.

Q: Changing Q into a double cast and therefore halfing it's damage isn't a good idea. Diana doesn't need the extra moonlight for her ult or whatever you changed that into as after landing her Q she can dash to that player twice already.

W: Delay on abilities like these just cause champions to feel unsatisfying and clunky. Damage nerfs once again, and not sure whether you've removed the shields double proc if all orbs detonate.

E: Huge damage nerfs again, you halfed the AP ratio killing her late game damage. Just changing her current ultimate to her E isn't compensation enough for this. It only makes her highly overbearing early and useless late.

R: For a champion like Diana who has huge sticking power she doesn't need an engage ultimate like that.

To summarise, for a fighter she just simply doesn't have enough damage or % damage abiltiies. I also don't like how you've proposed to change her into a fighter from an assassin. Even if Riot classed her as a fighter at first.

Hovering Hentai6/19/2017, 11:07:03 PM3 votes

Personally I love it but I can see people complaining about the issues of a powerful and instant pre 6 gap close. Currently the counterplay for her and Akali is to stay out of range and poke before they chase you down with point and click dashes.

Craft Zeppelin6/20/2017, 2:40:40 AM3 votes

No ability interactions with leona?

Dataless6/20/2017, 2:22:21 PM2 votes

changing Moonfall to her ultimate certainly would make the ability a lot more dramatic, kinda like Illaoi Leap of Faith

Varnoc6/20/2017, 3:06:46 PM2 votes

It's nice to see someone so passionate about Diana speaking up. Like many others here, I love Diana's story and theme, but her kit kinda falls flat and it's kept me from playing her over other champions I find more mechanically interesting. I have some thoughts on the subject, though they're probably overall meh to "how about no":

Passive - Moonsilver Blade

I completely agree with taking off the tacked on attack speed. Either simply increase her base attack speed (probably not a good idea), or increase her growth per level (better scaling as the game goes on). I think this was originally added to assuage some of her weakness in her early levels, but if Lunar Rush is going to be a basic ability, it feels like unnecessary up-front power.

I think that Moonsilver Blade should be the majority of Diana's damage, and so most of her abilities should be focus on enabling this. Additionally, I really feel like Diana should be interacting more with Moonlight in her abilities, and so I think Moonsilver Blade should apply it to those she hits.

Q - Lunar Strike

I don't know if I really like Lunar Strike being two separate casts (though your reasoning for it is solid), but I do like the alternation of cast direction with each cast, but Ill get back to that in a second. I do think that the up-front damage of Lunar Strike should be toned down some, and tied more into the follow-up damage.

Lunar Strike could only really apply Moonlight to those struck at the end of the ability, which would require more thought of the Diana player when casting the ability.

W - Pale Cascade

I agree with you that the up-front damage of this spell (when combined with Lunar Rush) currently accounts for a large portion of Diana's Burst. I think the delay is sound (something between 0.5 and 1 second should be plenty), but I think that if the orbs orbited a little further from Diana, it may also assuage the issue to a degree (as they're so close to her that standing on top of someone causes them all to detonate majority of the time).

I would like this ability to interact with Moonlight to some degree. I don't care much how it's achieved, but personally I was thinking that the shield increase (when the third orb is detonated) could consume Moonlight off of nearby enemies when it triggers, giving Diana an optional defensive use of Moonlight (and therefore justifying Q no longer applying it to every enemy struck).

I'm not really certain on the numbers for this sort of effect, but it would really depend on how many enemies you could consistently trigger moonlight on. This sort of thing could really put the "cascade" into this ability.

E - Lunar Rush

Ok, so in regards to alternating the direction of Lunar Strike's (Q) arc with each cast, this is relevant.

Lunar Rush chould cause Diana to dash a set distance through the target (Like Fizz's Urchin Strike), but her travel would be in an arc very similar to Lunar Strike's (Q). Casting Q or E causes the other to travel in the opposite direction (Clockwise or Counterclockwise).

Additionally, Lunar Rush chould apply on-hit effects to the target (including Moonsilver Blade, which could even have some special interaction when triggered through Lunar Rush), to allow it to strongly synergize with her passive, rather than providing straight magic damage (though it should still deal some, IMO).

Now, make no mistake, I'm aware that this is incredibly powerful. Lunar Rush traveling in an arc alone allows you to avoid most defensive skillshot CC due to it's unique travel path (all other dashes in the game come straight at you, so this one breaking the mold is going to require everyone to re-learn how to fight her) -and- it's two possible routes. Triggering on-hit effects is also nothing to scoff at. Guinsoo's Rageblade, Lich Bane, and Nashor's Tooth all just became that much better in this situation.

And so, to offset those utterly absurd benefits: Lunar Rush can now only be cast on enemies marked by Moonlight.

Limiting her mobility to only those marked by Moonlight makes landing those precise Q's and Passive procs all the more important. Your double dash is still available, as you can trigger your passive on the target if you've prepared properly. That said, Diana would need quite the mana pool to do this on a consistent basis, so that would need to be considered.

All that said though, this loads a lot of power into Lunar Rush (not that it wasn't there already I suppose), and turns her into more of a Skirmisher (and thus frustrating to play against, if the rest of that class is anything to go by) than a Fighter really, and honestly, the Guinsoo's interaction would be busted with this version, so I don't really think it's a good idea without changes elsewhere.

Perhaps if Moonsilver Blade was a 4 hit passive? Thinks (This last bit is mostly sarcastic, in case anyone misses that, but it's an option, espically as it lowers the "win moreness" of this ability without really hurting much else [besides maybe her jungle clear])

R - Moonfall

I'm not sure if I'm on board with your version, but I can't really think of anything better, so eh.

I like the current Moonfall quite a bit, even though it's use is limited. I'd be happy if it vacuumed and slowed everyone in like it does right now, while applying Moonlight and (maybe) dealing some damage?

Maybe you could make it a channel that increases the ability's size based on the channel duration? In my head it really lacks weight without some kind of delay.

So yea, Like I said, probably meh to "nope" ideas, but that's what's on my mind. Once again, I applaud your dedication to the character, and your willingness to let go of the more unhealthy play-styles she has, even if they're fun for you, for the sake of other players. It's a beautiful thing.

DISHONORABLE XD6/20/2017, 1:36:54 AM2 votes

wp u just made her some kind of bad ap bruiser that will get one shoted the second she entires the fight the poor resit buffs won't do shit , and the identity of a assassin or a fighter is shipped away bc u cut her burst and her dps ( as ) her ult has no dmg lol . and no matter what you say riot will rework her in a way that disappoints every diana mains , its been like this since forever riot can't satisfy the current player base of the champ they rework .( just look in the past ) i say this so ur not holding on fake hopes

junglerboy166/20/2017, 11:46:02 AM2 votes

Just to be clear, you still want her E to have the same reset mechanic that her current R has, right? (otherwise it doesn't make sense to talk about double casting Q).

Overall I really like the direction you're pushing for, but I feel like your suggestion for her ult feels a little off (not quite sure how). It feels a bit too much like "Hey I'm a heavy engage tank! This is my flavor of Amumu ult!" When I think "Moonfall" I want something cataclysmic, and I just can't shake the idea of the moon in Majora's Mask crashing to the ground.

Maybe instead of just throwing on some resists for every enemy hit, you could make it so that it works more like this:

  • R- Moonfall: Diana leaps into the air for half a second and slams her sword into the ground, drawing in, revealing, and creating a shallow crater grounding all enemy champions in a large area for 3 seconds. while inside the crater, Moonsilver Blade procs slow enemies by X% for 0.5 seconds. At the end of this time, the weight of the moon crashes down into the crater, dealing X/Y/Z (+AP) Damage to any enemy champions still in the area.

Instead of just applying a heavy CC combo to the whole team and making Diana hard as balls to kill, this gives her a certain level of target selection, and also gives some counterplay with a clear threat but a large window of time to react.

99496804DEL16/20/2017, 11:59:10 AM2 votes

Hi, as I am a Diana main myself I really appreciate this thread that you made on her upcoming rework and I will try to access her problems in a way that can help riot shape her in a way she deserves.

First a little about myself, Ive mained her for quite a while now and last year I sat in high diamond with a 60% win rate on Diana across 176 games (not on this account). So I consider myself to have above average insight into all things Diana so to speak.

I really hope riot will give her the rework she deserves as I believe her to be one of the best champions riot has ever designed from an artistic point of view ( etc her Q, a complex skillshot that is shaped like a crescent moon). Because in her current state, she is almost unplayable competetively or in higher elos.( she struggles in teamfights, she struggles from being outranged, she struggles from getting locked down, zoning, she struggles vs duelists, so yeah...)

The problem with Diana is that she has no escape, now that is no problem in of itself, but she lacks power to compensate for that trade off. There is no game ever, where it would be more beneficial to pick Diana over another champ, the only thing she does better than other champions is taking turrets, but she lacks dueling power or an escape to make use of it.

As such I believe the key to fixing Diana would be to give her a buff to her power once she is in a fight, cause I actually like that part of her, that once you are in, you are not getting out, unless you win. A way to do this would be to look at champions who fulffill this role better than her, divers who once they get in, they dont get out unless they win.

The best example I can give of this, historically, is Irelia, she is practically the same champion, only better. She dives in , she is tankier, has more potential mobility, she is harder to cc, and she has unresistable damage(true damage), she has potentially better CC, and better sustain(healing). So I believe the key would be to give Diana something among the above; access to power that champions with escapes dont get etc; tenacity, true damage and so on.

More recent example of this is Fioras rework, once again, an example of a fighter who dives in and does everything better, she has true damage, more potential mobility; to both juke or stick on a target, a crit steroid, and a counter CC, move speed steroid, and gets tankier. So maybe riot could take some inspiration from Fiora in their rework and give Diana a counter cc, or spellshield of some sort.

Because as I said, I like that she is an all in champion that wins, or doesnt get out, but she needs something, to help her power once she is in the fight. Examples could be some of the above or something else: etc, irelias tenacity, fioras riposte, more mobility to juke like fioras q ( but not enough to run away), move speed steroid(fiora), morganas spellshield, true damage(irelias version is more healthy than fioras).

Other champions who are similar to Diana but better for various reasons are:

Akali, after nerfs to stealth vision, akali is better because not only does she get mobility on her shroud now, but she can stall for cds, or help, much easier. She has sustain and more reliable combo. Potential escape by shrouding over walls.

Vi: Tankier, more damage, damage stacks over time in fights(armor shred and max health damage), more CC, ult that is uninterruptable. Potential escape with Q.

Shyvana: Dives in, uninterruptable, no mana issues, more damage, more tankiness, move speed steroid. Stacking tankiness.

There are more which I may add later if anyone is interested but I believe ive made my point for now. xD

Other problems: No ap items that cater to melee, or ap items that are particularly good for bruisers, something like ap steraks, or ap tri force would help her greatly. No keystones or masteries that are particularly good on her.

The bottom line is Diana deserves better than her current state, but I hope they keep her coregameplay intact, her "one way in your face" mobility, her crescent q, her moonsilver blade passive are all things I believe should stay, the rest of the kit should be reworked imo.

Anyway, I hope the rework comes soon, because I have completely stopped playing her in ranked at the moment, there is simply no situation, where she is better than other champions.

Diana is my favourite tho, so im really hyped for a rework, but I hope rito dont let us down.

NotCounter6/20/2017, 8:26:59 PM1 votes

i don't think your proposed changes are bad, just cant really imagine her as being a fighter rather than an assassin. i did have one idea though, maybe if you proc her passive on someone with her Q debuff you get bonus attack speed or damage so there's a choice between more mobility or damage depending on what you need. one concern with your changes though is that she will be way too hard to get away from (she already sort of is right now). you can Q > E > Q > E > E for a total of three shortly delayed dashes in addition to her new ult which sounds overloaded to me

DaNinad6/20/2017, 10:21:31 PM1 votes

I could see her played as support with lucian or draven or any lane bully

Serika Zero6/21/2017, 10:55:20 AM1 votes

Yet, Diana is one of the most healthy assassins in this game. Whatever, I'm uninstalling after the riven event ends anyway

GelsominoKiller6/21/2017, 8:21:05 AM1 votes

Nice rework! I think that shifting Diana to a diver is the most fitting and healthy direction. Swapping E and R is almost obligated change, but i'm not a fan of the grounding on it. She definitely needs a niche, and we lack a champion whose gameplay is to group together enemies to set up wombo combos for your team.

What about Moon Dash going through the target, and the moonlight reset being per champion (think of a gated, conditional, champion-only yasuo E)? She would have a lot of in-fight mobility and stickness; with a dps-oriented damage pattern and no burst it shouldn't be a balance problem.