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Fizz/Ahri changes contradict each other... Reversing your best change to Ahri ever?

Varion Bot·1/28/2015, 5:19:15 AM·60 votes·4,982 views

OKAY REWIND TO SEASON 3. Fizz and Ahri are pick/ban choices in lcs. Both champions clearly need nerfs. In response, you cut damage off of Ahri's abilities and added the +20% damage boost to Charm, because you wanted to, and I quote:

-Make Ahri’s “all-in” gameplay more closely tied with landing Charm to establish Charm as Ahri’s “kiss of death” that needs to be avoided, as well as lower her threat/presence while Charm is on cooldown -Keep Ahri’s core gameplay intact while trimming away strength from the low-gameplay patterns that don’t feel rewarding

I liked this change a lot. Instead of getting bursted by Ahri with DFG and various little lights that gravitated to me just because I was close by, I had a clear-cut choice that if I could dodge this one, narrow skillshot, I could survive the rest of her burst. There's something about getting hit with a max range skillshot that makes me think, "I deserve to die here. I couldn't dodge x ability even though I know I could have, so this seems like a balanced, fair way to die." The change made laning as and vs Ahri far more interesting, and now you're REVERSING EVERYTHING YOU'VE DONE. So now I'm thinking, deep breaths man, you can get through this. But as I scroll down...

"Pulling power from Fizz's basic spells and loading them into his ultimate makes sure skilled Fizz players can still slip in and take out priority targets, but now gives some room to breathe when he doesn't line up his shark-bait just right."

Uhhhhhh, what? You JUST removed the EXACT SAME DAMAGE BUFF off of Charm for Ahri! This almost looks like a paraphrase of the 3.13 changes to Ahri I quoted above. With a bit of editing...

"Pulling power from AHRI's basic spells and loading them into HER CHARM makes sure skilled AHRI players can still slip in and take out priority targets, but now gives some room to breathe when SHE doesn't line up HER CHARM just right."

'Nuff said. Let's not go back to the previous state of Ahri. I don't want to get w->r->r->r->ignite 100-0'd ever again.

Watch the season 3 world championship if you want a reminder of how stupid Ahri was before the Charm damage buff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PclyX3yfqio

For god's sake upvote.

72 Comments

Keevalroy1/28/2015, 5:29:13 AM28 votes

I'd be alright with the DFG removal since it's what got her nerfed in the first place, but the kiss-of-death is the best idea they've had for her. It doesn't make sense for why they want to delete it as well, and why they don't want Ahri to be an assassin anymore.

Tis a nice day1/28/2015, 5:21:29 AM23 votes

They made Fizz more assassin-ish (requiring ult to deal as much damage as pre-change levels) They made Ahri more Mage-kite-ish (not requiring charm to do heavy damages, but not able to blow people up as easily)

I'm personally fine with the changes.

ababytiger1/28/2015, 5:55:13 AM9 votes

Muh Summoner. I've pretty much made the same exact argument for Ahri in my forum post not that long ago.
(http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/mdKJfORb-52-ahri-changes)

Albeit mine did not bring up the contradictions as the main point. though upvote to bring attention to this madness.
Ahri item 3070

Riftic1/28/2015, 7:23:45 AM7 votes

I was talking about this change for the longest time. Nobody seemed to care. Nobody cared that the changes were obvious steps backwards in interactive gameplay. Nobody cared that the mathematically provable 33% damage decrease for Ahri was insane for "Compensation buffs".

At the end of the day, I've just learned the hard way that expecting logic from Riot and expecting the League community to care about real problems is unrealistic.

mi ramfan1/28/2015, 5:24:22 PM5 votes

The difference is that Ahri has the option to have a mage-like play style thanks to her ranged spells. Fizz has no such option; all of his abilities except his ultimate are point and click and require him to begin or end in melee range to deal damage. As such, while the damage amp on Charm was an attempt to shoehorn Ahri into the assassin role when she didn't need to be one to succeed, Fizz's new damage amp makes him even more of an assassin then he already was...IF he lands his ult.

Give the Ahri changes a week or so before you trash them. Yeah, she'll do less damage in her 1 rotation burst combo, but I think we'll find her to be much more effective kiting around the edges of the fight than you might think. Given that I always played Ahri that way even with the damage amp (with the exception of going for kills in lane), I'm looking forward to these changes.

JØJł1/28/2015, 11:47:28 AM5 votes

They didn't need to remove the 20% amp on Ahri.... something needs to feel like a reward for hitting her charm...

midorii1/28/2015, 8:58:10 PM4 votes

Please bring back the damage amp buff Riot. Many Ahri players have no need to charm opponents as we can aim our Qs perfectly fine. This makes charm a waste of mana as you can easily Q and get more damage out of it.

Please bring cohesion back to her kit :(

Drunk Rummate1/28/2015, 7:02:18 PM4 votes

I've been complaining about this since the day it popped up on PBE. Really sad that they're doing this to Ahri... she's going to entirely lose her unique feel and just feel like another mediocre kite mage that we already have dozens of (ori, xerath, ziggs, azir.. etc)

SmokinSickStyle1/28/2015, 6:10:43 PM3 votes

Except Her W and R ratios aren't those of S3.

Ahri is a ranged mage, the changes + DFG made her a Ranged ASSASSIN with mage properties, they wanted to underline this last aspect, her mage one.

Fizz instead was dealing\still is dealing alot of damage with just his basic spells (Which isn't his real problem anyway, E does 2 much damage AoE for a defensive spell) and he's melee, they wanted to improve the Assassin part of Fizz which requires landing all of his spells in the correct order and straegically, hence why the 20% increased damage.

Almost every pure Assassin needs to combo properly with their ults to kill something, he can just EE+W+Qlichbane to kill his main target, especially when combined with DFG.

Once again, Ahri's W and Ult ratios aren't as high as before so it's unlikely that she can W+R*3 + ignite to kill someone unless fed.

Imho the change + removal made her deal less burst and penalizing less the target hit by her Charm, because she was having the same issue as Fizz even if it was less present (E landed?DFG W+Q+ignite ggisiskill).

An overall nerf to both.

4nth0l0gy1/28/2015, 9:21:27 PM2 votes

Pretty much exactly how I felt about hecarim's recent W buff.

Buff the Q Buff the Q Buff, the Q, you morons. Remove the damage inhibitor vs. Monsters.

CaptnJakSparrow1/29/2015, 1:24:53 AM2 votes

There honestly is no reason to actually pick ahri over other champions anymore lol

ThePlasticSpork1/28/2015, 7:15:08 AM2 votes

I honestly kind of doubt Ahri is going to be 100-0ing anybody with W-R-R-R. It still seems to me that if you dodge her skillshots there's not really much chance of her killing you. This change helps her teamfighting quite a bit but in-lane it seems largely the same - dodge charm and you won't die.

Linna Excel1/28/2015, 6:17:53 AM2 votes

The charm damage buff didn't happen until her season 4 rework IIRC.

Zyras Honey Pot1/28/2015, 5:53:24 PM2 votes

I'll leave my judgement until I actually get to play with the new changes I guess. As long as she still has enough damage to actually kill charmed targets on her own then it's fine, otherwise I can see this being problematic. I mean Ahri without ult in a teamfight as a mage is just going to be a worse insert any other mage and without DFG OR the Charm 20% buff her picking off individual targets before a teamfight isn't going to be as easy.