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Master Yi and (old) Fiora: A Curious Question

XRSunion·1/5/2016, 3:19:51 PM·1 votes·946 views

I am by no means a main of either Fiora OR MasterYi and that's exactly why I wanted feedback from people who (unlike me) actually know what they're talking about. Now, one of the key reasons often brought up for the Fiora rework was that her old ult was "toxic to play against". But, from the perspective of an unranked player of immobile mages, MasterYi 's Alpha Strike literally seems like the same move to me but worse because it's not an ult and, thus, on a far lower cooldown that can, moreover, be further reduced via basic attacks and even champion takedowns on top of that because of the passive on his R. Ergo:

Question: Why was Fiora's ult seen (even by Riot themselves apparently) as such a toxic, uncounterable move but Master Yi's Q doesn't seem to even remotely raise the same concerns even though it's ALSO a move that hits multiple champions while it's user is untargetable AND MOREOVER is not an ult and can be more easily spammed?

Note: I know one of MasterYi 's infamous weaknesses is to CC him to oblivion either before OR immediately after Alpha Strike is used and that my favorite champions to play are even in the best position to do that. By that point, though, again, why could the same not have been said of pre-rework Fiora's Blade Waltz ?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Edit------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to everyone who answered! The main thing I missed seems to be the synergy of item 3074 on Fiora 's ult. I guess I just hadn't seen enough good Fiora's in ratio to bad Fiora's to notice the "Saved from death via multi-lifestealing whole teams" scenario.

5 Comments

MisterHealYoGirl1/5/2016, 3:27:39 PM4 votes

One of the big ones was that it procced on-hits, including lifesteal. So if she built Ravenous Hydra and Bloodthirster, she could wait until she was really low and then just Waltz back to full health, since every hit was giving her AoE lifesteal. (Normally lifesteal doesn't apply to untargetable champions, but she became targetable for a few frames each attack.) Blade Waltz could also hit champions more than once, so Fifi had better dueling potential than Master Yi. It's also notable that Fiora and Yi used their dashes differently; Yi uses his to get onto the squishies, while Fiora had her double lunge for that, and could use her ult exclusively for blowing people up.

The Sword Saint1/5/2016, 3:29:01 PM3 votes

The mistake your making is confusing the reason why blade waltz was crazy. It's not the ability to avoid damage.

Blade Waltz proc'd on hit effects, so old fiora would buy hydra and massive amounts of ad and erase a whole team because of the over lapping aoe hydra damage that hits 5 times while healing fiora to full hp from near death while untargetable and also allowing her to hit the same target multiple times, 5 times in the case of a solo ult.

Master yi's q doesn't proc on hit effects and only hits 4 targets at most one time each, still only hitting once against a solo enemy - and he doesn't lifesteal up from it.

If fiora hit a certain level of gold advantage, she would simply erase whole teams... and if she fell behind she would suicide bomb the enemy and die without doing anything. Th crazy swing from ridiculously strong to worthless made her too feast or famine.

Restless Slumber1/5/2016, 3:29:19 PM1 votes

I'm pretty sure old fiora's ult proced on hit effects such as hydra on each strike. I never played old fiora, so I wouldn't know. I though they changed old fiora because of how bad she was early game and she only promoted getting fed with her playstyle.