So, people just don't remember when mages were strong then?

People aren't asking for a mage meta, people ask for FAIRNESS and BALANCE

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

one of my fears is, that this mage rework will overbuff mages just as the marksmen rework overbuffed them, and were going to end up with another duo ap meta again with mages taking over mid and top lane entirely.

what was wrong with the game balance at the end of season 5 that they had to make such drastic changes? pretty much every champion class was relevant at the time. there were only problems with individual champion balance, but the game as a whole was in such a better state. no splitpushing minions, no retarded death timers, no problems with the ward system, games were a lot more teamfight oriented instead of people avoiding teamfights because theyre afraid of one mistake at 20 minutes ending the game.

i just dont get it. they really screwed up this season.

- - -

... yeah mage meta was good times.

Ziggs wasnt rediculous. I played him all the time but he was weak to assassins, but he had his strengths. Now assassins have all the power and ziggs has zero. So thats what needs fixed

upvote sir

anytime someone asks for a ziggs buff i'm like

"are you fucking high?"

Ziggs wasnt that OP.

But DFG was. The memories... they still haunt me.

Now Ryze was always broken.

Mage meta we dont need, but Mages can get at least one, yes one item (two would be pushing it) to help against AD champs, especially the manaless ADs. It doesnt need 50 armor, nor 80 AP. 50 or 60 AP, 25 pr 30 armor, and 100% mana regen or 200 or 300 flat mana.

Mages atent strong? I bursted a full build rengar in one combo because he got in my e range as lissandra.

I think we do. Not that mages have to be that blatantly overpowered like s3 Kass, but they have to be stronger. Your average mage is not going to 100-0 a turret after a single kill in lane. All AP team will not destroy everything even with 50s death timers. I'll take this over "win teamfight, destroy 4 turrets, inhib and nexus" season 6 thing any time.

I remember ziggs hell.......

{quoted}

I see at least three threads a day like this. At first I thought these people were joking, but apparently they're serious. So either they joined the game in S5 or they just don't have long term memories.

Or they actually think mages not being a complete liability to their team was a good thing.

Remember when was strong? Remember when he'd get and then clear lanes that he wasn't even in? Remember when games would drag on for 55+ minutes because anytime the opposing team would try to push Ziggs would clear the minion wave from half the fucking map away?

Yes. That was with the old baron buff that didn't make minions harder to clear, there's no way he'd be able to do that anymore. Unless the other team isn't far enough ahead to baron AND can't ever kill one squishy mage, in which case are you so sure they deserve the win?

I think it was also before dragon changes, which give a team that is having trouble cracking the base another win condition that waveclear is no help against. Turtling is 1000% dead this season, which is only one of the reasons Ziggs is horribly weak now.

Remember when was strong? Remember how picking literally any melee champion into Ryze top was a fucking death sentence?

It's so much better to be doomed if you pick melee into instead?

Melee have always had a bad time in lane, especially with nerfed into the ground. But that's no better now than it ever was.

. That's all I really need to say about this champion, don't I? For those of you who don't get it: imagine if you only had 5 ban slots per game, because one of them was always, always dedicated to one champion.

His ult needed some nerfs, which he got. In fact he was overnerfed for quite a while (arguably still is). That has nothing to do with itemization and was never a class-wide issue in the first place -- no one else could do what he did (and still can't, but now he can't do it either).

Nerfing items for an entire class is not a good answer to one or two champions being OP. Unless you also remember the times when were each must pick or ban levels of OP. (Some have had a few patches of being noticeably stronger than alternatives, but never to Rageblade Xin/Jax or Worlds GP/Morde levels.)

Kass is an assassin

This is such a horrendous post. Naming two (three at a push, Kassadin is hardly a mage?) mages who've been unbalanced/toxic in history as an argument against mages as a class being powerful is absolutely idiotic. Guess what, I can easily name more than three people of every single class who have been utterly ridiculous over the course of the game, but that doesn't mean every class should be trash because one bad egg doesn't mean a bad class.

"Remember when Zed was aids and Yasuo was aids? Let's never make AD mids strong again! Remember when Lucian and Kalista were retarded? Let's permanently gut the ADC class!" etc etc. I could go on.

Ziggs was boring as hell in season 4 and Ryze was the definition of cancer in season 5. That has absolutely no baring on whether or not mages should be allowed to be strong. For the two toxic mages you listed there are a dozen other mages that have been powerful in recent years that you didn't list.