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The Truth About the ADC role.

Bronze GOAT·8/30/2017, 11:47:02 PM·38 votes·3,573 views

I'm probably gonna get downvoted for this, since these boards aren't a friendly place for marksmen, but I just thought I'd outta clear up some of the misconceptions about ADC.

Yes, it is true, that ADC's are strong right now, and some especially Tristana and Twitch are really irritating to play against. But besides those outliers, I'm going to attempt to clear up some things about the role as a whole.

When marksmen are strong, ADC mains probably benefit the least out of every other class in terms of their ability to abuse this time to climb. You can see it in proof of marksmen win rates, even in this marksmen friendly meta, none of them can crack a 54% winrate, and the majority of the good ones sit at around a 51% winrate. The main reason for this is that marksmen have less champions, obviously; but also that the role itself is not a "Seize the Win!" role, but more of a "Wait for the tools to win are given to me, then seize!" type of role.

This means a few things. One, the supports are the ones that really decide who wins lane. Sure the marksmen has a say, but it's more of a 60-40 affair. (Jungler aside) If my support is Sona, I have to rely on her to poke and heal effectively in order to get control in lane. Same thing if my support is Thresh, our win condition is whether he lands hooks or not, then once he does, I can officially display my skill after his engage, if he never lands a hook, then we could possibly (unlikely) go even, but were definitely not winning lane. This can also be applied to supports because they need their ADC to properly attack after getting the hook off, but it's a lot more reliable to get someone who knows how to contribute to a play, rather than make one in solo que.

Furthermore, as early as champ select, how well a marksmen is going to do in a game is already decided. If your team does not pick any real front-linemen to take damage for you and allow you to attack from safety, your window to deal damage in every fight is shortened considerably. In most cases, this often spells defeat unless you get carried or fed early. Also, if the enemy loads up on assassins and cc or BOTH, then again, you're probably gonna have a bad game, especially if no one picks a front lineman. Sure, every other champ has weaknesses too, but unlike other classes marksmen have neither tankiness nor burst, so if they don't get enough time to get consistent autos off then it might as well be a 4 v 5.

The last factor is of course, a 1 v 1 presence. Supports also struggle from this. Yes, late game marksmen can beat tanks and many fighters due to their inability to burst them down completely, but for the beginning/middle of the game when people are actually able to split-push and pressure a lane with their presence without fear of getting caught out, ADCs can't apply pressure alone. Even in the late game a marksman will lose with even items/skill against a mage or assassin without their support.

TLDR; It's not all fun in the sun for marksmen even in a meta like this, they are still more team reliant and comp dependent than basically any other role in the game as a whole. Not that marksmen as champions aren't better than other roles, but they are certainly not made for solo que.

49 Comments

Critmaster Garen8/31/2017, 4:19:13 AM20 votes

marksmen winrates are skewed due to there always being 2 marksmen in every game, with one on every team.

even when marksmen are overpowered, theyre only ever going to compare to each other and wont break 50% winrate by a large margin.

for every tristana thats 1v9 carrying a game, you have another game where she loses to a twitch who does the same. marksmen could be twice as strong as theyre now, and provided people wouldnt play more than two of them on their team, the individual marksmen still wouldnt break 55% winrate.

marksmen winrates cant be treated the same as other champions who are at home in lanes that have champion diversity and are possibly played in more than 1 position.

Eedat8/31/2017, 1:26:33 AM19 votes

I mean you say marksmen are reliant on their team, but at the same time your team is reliant on picking something that is directly beneficial to the ADC to win. What I mean is that your claim that your team needs to pick around you or the other team autowins because their ADC has peel is pretty selfish by itself. You still get to play what you want but other roles are now pidegeonholed into playing something that supports the ADC instead of what they want to play. You're argument implies that the game relies around you instead of everyone having an equal shot.

Winrates dont mean much in the manner that you're speaking. You have to remember that winrates are relative to the role. It's only comparing one bot lane ADC to other marksmen. This can lead to situations where balance within a single class isnt bad, but they still have far more power over other roles.

That being said, I dont really feel that marksmen themselves are the culprit. Markmens are supposed to deal a lot of damage and they dont hit nearly as massive of a spike as people say they do with 2 items. The problem is that the counterplay to squishy DPS is that they're vulnerable. The amount of healing, shielding, damage reduction, and zero effort peel in the game is removing the counterplay of killing them which leads to the class feeling overbearing. The Assassin rework was more or less a complete failure and Divers and Fighters are more or less useless when their target gets 1k+ shielding plus heals and peel for days. Honestly I think Riot went too far with support itemization as its far too strong now for how little gold it costs.

Sdars8/31/2017, 5:25:05 AM12 votes

  1. Both teams have an adc, so adcs can be very strong and have normal winrates.

  2. Ofc supports have a say in the lane. If you expect to "own 90% of bot lane" just because you have carry in your name, think again. There's 4 champions in bot lane and only 1 of them is controlled by you. And you're claiming that the support has most of the control, but again that's wrong. A great support can make a big difference by allowing you to snowball in lane, but a great adc can do so too, for example, with proper punishment and wave manipulation. If the support is bad, the adc can set up a safe position that leads to the lane turning into a farm lane. However, if the adc is bad, he's just going to get the wave in a terrible position and get himself killed. A bad support is a much smaller burden than a bad adc.

  3. If your comp is bad, everyone is at a disadvantage, not just the adc. Even when adcs aren't very strong, if your comp is bad, this still applies. Against assassins and cc you position and kite properly, you buy a GA/death's dance/both and you laugh. If your team isn't useless, you should be fine. If your team is useless, tough luck, you weren't going to win with any other class anyway. You have QSS if there's some key CC you need to purge and you have GA if they're going all out on you. You even have Death's Dance to survive burst, that also gives you more dmg and physical dmg vamp. If they have a lot of assassins, even better. As long as they don't get super fed, all you have to do later is make them fail at their job (of killing you) and win the game.

  4. Don't make me laugh. Zeal+IE is already a late game adc in this meta. At this point, they can 1v1 many of their direct counters just by not messing up, and that's without counterbuilding. As for splitpushing, adcs aren't supposed to be great at it, but they can still do it. They melt towers pretty fast and, like I said, can often 1v1. However, it's really effective to just ward and back off when enemies go for you. If you can do that reliably, you can take down towers very fast, by surprise. However, it's a double edged sword. If the enemy team manages to engage and fight 5v4, your team doesn't have an adc...

Mordepool8/31/2017, 12:27:42 AM10 votes

It's been 7 years. I just want a break from no skill right clicking from range. Nothing personal

Niaphim8/31/2017, 1:06:08 AM9 votes

Talking about win rates, your argument is flawed simply because marksmen have been required for the longest time in League history and are mandantory on both teams in the botlane. Whether marksmen feel weak or strong, you ALWAYS have (at least) one on each side, because they are the absolutely the best class to take down objectives.

Let's say some midlane assassin becomes overpowered. Then their mains can feed themselves on mages, who tend to be vulnerable and countered by assassins. Strong bruisers can destroy tanks or even mages who occasionally appear in the toplane. In jungle we have (or at least used to have) a large variety of champion types. So, what do you have in botlane? It's marksman vs marksman. Always. So they can't influence the absolute winrate unless one of the teams replaces their marksman by some other carry. Broken cancels out broken.

Saianna8/31/2017, 4:09:14 AM7 votes

Yes, it is true, that ADC's are strong right now,

They are strong since mid season 2... That's what.. 5-6 years?

The "now" part kinda makes me salty/triggered, cause it feels like you try to imply ADCs weren't strong before.

ADC update -> ADCs buffed like never ever before. Their itemization powercreeped to the fucking moon. Mage update -> mages nerfed/reworked to support, mage items nerfed/reworked to support, supports buffed, ADCs buffed Support update -> more support items, ADCs buffed, ages nerfed Assassin update -> assassins nerfed to hell and beyond tank update -> guess what. Tanks nerfed, ADCs buffed

Some were indirect buffs, but in the end they were always making ADCs stronger.

But heeeeeey, it's boards fault for having ill feelings towards marksmen.

LightIsMyPath8/31/2017, 1:49:15 AM7 votes

The fact that your win relies on your team picks is exactly what is disliked.. Because as does your win so does your ally's. You simply have more chance to win if you pick something to make the ADC shine than trying to do stuff yourself

Yordle Xayah8/31/2017, 10:06:14 AM5 votes

The only thing I wanna point out, is that Tristana has the exact same kit/numbers she had when she was the 15th worst ADC in the game and below a 49% win ratio in patch 7.13 and she hasn't been buffed or improved in any way since and as someone who played her back then and will continue to play her regardless of her being gutted if that ends up happening, I get increasingly annoyed about people not realizing her past and what made her strong in the meta right now.

Her counters got weaker. she's good against tanks, there's Lulu/Janna, assassins got nerfed and most important of all: Critical strike is too cheap and too effective

She was in the trash can for so long, and the only buff she got since Season 5 was a 2 second increase in the duration of her Q in patch 7.3 and she even had a higher win ratio than she has now back in 7.7 but only now people hate on her super hard. I know everyone wants nerfs on her, but all I want is for stuff around her to get buffed and Crit to be nerfed, not her as a champion. But I doubt people will see things my way which is unfortunate but it's what I get I suppose.

Athenes Lulu8/31/2017, 9:05:53 AM4 votes

You should also point out that a lone marksman = free kill unless the assassin is so underfed that he can't even kill a single thing in a rotation.

They are actually way more tied to their teammates than we supports are, if anything. At least we supports can get out alive should we ever get caught, these little guys can't unless they have some kind of mobility.

I came here expecting another generic and overly biased anti-ADC thread, but it's a good reminder to all of us here. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Executioner8/31/2017, 1:07:37 AM3 votes

Good man.

Kaìju8/31/2017, 2:34:01 PM2 votes

As an Ashe main in Silver, I feel this. I have had to explain to supports why they should rush Ardent in ranked games. I've had Blitzs and Morgs land less Qs than I do ults. What people don't seem to grasp at least in my experience is that yes ADC can run the show, but that doesn't mean people want to let them. I've explained "Oh they have a Malphite, hey guys I already first picked Ashe so if you could not go Kled, Zed, and Kha so that we can have some AP that would be great." And they sometimes don't listen. ADC meta is great, but I would add on that's it's great if you're playing the in meta champs. Ashe currently has a 48.8X winrate or so, only above Lucian, Ez, and Cait. She's the forth worst ADC in the game, and in low elo she's even worse since she is a utility carry not a damage carry. So yes ADC items are over tuned but I think that's more because Marksmen are really the only ones who can itemize crit reliably, not ADCs themselves being broken.

FatedSaviour8/31/2017, 2:44:50 AM1 votes

just wanna say, i liked tristanna, then without her being touched at all (except maybe that rework about spells adding stacks i forget when that was), she went from never played to as op as twitch himself, but i completely agree, i hate when i get my adc fed then they think they can do everything alone and lose all the advantage i worked hard to give while i roam mid

Solari Fortune8/31/2017, 4:12:51 PM1 votes

I feel it not really the Marksmen themselves that are strong but more of the amount of protection they have given to them by their team item 3504 gives them Attack speed and Health Drain item 3109 Redirects damage onto the tank item 3190 High huge shield item 3401 Another shield

Plus the current fotm supports are those with heals and shields that can just keep their ADC alive forever Janna Lulu are big ones here.

When crit got cheaper it did help a lot of late game carries get back into the scene, but I feel mainly it just the amount of protection they have is what has given them so much power

TsunamiSS8/31/2017, 5:49:41 PM1 votes

Anecdotal evidence here to support OP's point: I found great success with Lucian up until the meta shifted to Tristana / Twitch ; Caitlyn wasn't as much of a problem since I ALWAYS banned her or knew how to abuse windows of opportunity. Obviously, Lucian's strength is in his dueling / skirmishing prowess. In other words, as much as an ADC can possibly swing the game in the early-to-mid stage, I could with Lucian; a tank meta (that's how I see the current meta) completely negates this unless I'm extremely fed.

A few games back, I played Twitch and I was unable to do anything even though I had three items. Their front line / divers had an easier time getting to me / supporting their ADC, than my team's to their ADC. A lot of the power to shift the game (the 1v9 meme) was out of my hands despite my best efforts; to be clear I was capable of doing so, but literally could not. Of course the converse is, their Tristana completely ripped my team apart as she had no problems getting every AA off.

LordGeovanni9/1/2017, 12:51:15 AM1 votes

60-40 is fair considering support has about a 10% say in the rest of the teams dealing less if you dont teamfight much.