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The Strength of Shyvana and Dragon's Descent

Jin Kazama·1/27/2015, 7:58:27 AM·15 votes·5,139 views

TL;DR AT THE BOTTOM!

Hey everyone. I'm a 3-year player from OCE who has recently taken quite a liking to Shyvana. Though underrated and underestimated, she is quite a powerful Champion, despite her lack of CC, which is what I'm here about. Let's take a look at Shyvana's Ultimate and what it does.

ACTIVE: Shyvana transforms into a dragon and dashes to a target location. Enemies along her path take magic damage and are pushed toward her target location.

Wow, this Ultimate sounds like an amazing ability that is perfect for the Half-Dragon! This ability sounds like a magnificent way to turn a team fight, save a team mate or cluster enemies together so your transformed abilities deal maximum damage. The problem is, this is only in theory. While sometimes these things do happen because of Dragon's Descent, the truth is there is too little response and too many ways of stopping her Ultimate. Here's a list of things that can disrupt the Dragon's Descent (full list at bottom):

  • Ahri's Charm.
  • Alistar's Pulverize and Headbutt.
  • Anivia's Crystallize.
  • Azir's Shifting Sands and Emperor's Divide.
  • Blitzcrank's Rocket Grab (Power Fist disables you but you still fly towards location).
  • Braum's Glacial Fissure.
  • Cho'Gath's Rupture.
  • Darius' Apprehend.
  • Diana's Moonfall.
  • Draven's Stand Aside.
  • Fizz's Chum the Waters (the knock-up).
  • Gnar's GNAR!
  • Gragas' Body Slam and Explosive Cask.
  • Hecarim's Devastating Charge.
  • Janna's Howling Gale and Monsoon.
  • Jarvan IV's Demacian Standard-Dragon Strike and Cataclysm.
  • Jayce's Thundering Blow.
  • Lee Sin's Dragon's Rage.

I'd keep going but it's just any disrupt (knock-back, knock-up etc.) stops Shyvana's Descent which doesn't seem fair at all and especially doesn't fit thematically. I mean, should a Centaur's kick really be more powerful than the leap of a dragon? Should a fat, male human's body produce more force than a dragon's leap? No. Let's look at a few abilities that are similar to Dragon's Descent.

  • Hecarim's Onslaught of Shadows.
  • Jarvan IV's Demacian Standard-Dragon Strike and Cataclysm.
  • Kalista's Fate's Call.
  • Malphite's Unstoppable Force.
  • Sion's Unstoppable Onslaught.
  • Vi's Assault and Battery.
  • Zac's Elastic Slingshot and Let's Bounce!

Now let's see which of these abilities can be disrupted.

None of them.

Shyvana is a fantastic Champion that is loads of fun and very powerful, but her power is lessened disastrously by the flimsiness of her Ult. All that needs to be changed is to make her immune to CC while Descending and to improve the hitbox on the ability (a lot of the time you just fly straight over Champions. If you read this far then thank you and I hope you can agree with my words.

TL;DR: Shyvana is a lot weaker than she should be due to her Ultimate being stopped by anything and everything while Ultimates that are easier to use and deal more damage are unstoppable (Vi's Assault and Battery, Hecarim's Onslaught of Shadows etc.). To fix this, she needs to become unstoppable while Descending andher hitbox needs to match her target frame.

Complete list of abilities that disrupt Dragon's Descent.

  • Ahri's Charm.
  • Alistar's Pulverize and Headbutt.
  • Anivia's Crystallize.
  • Azir's Shifting Sands and Emperor's Divide.
  • Blitzcrank's Rocket Grab (Power Fist disables you but you still fly towards location).
  • Braum's Glacial Fissure.
  • Cho'Gath's Rupture.
  • Darius' Apprehend.
  • Diana's Moonfall.
  • Draven's Stand Aside.
  • Fizz's Chum the Waters (the knock-up).
  • Gnar's GNAR!
  • Gragas' Body Slam and Explosive Cask.
  • Hecarim's Devastating Charge.
  • Janna's Howling Gale and Monsoon.
  • Jarvan IV's Demacian Standard-Dragon Strike and Cataclysm.
  • Jayce's Thundering Blow.
  • Lee Sin's Dragon's Rage.
  • Lulu's Wild Growth.
  • Malphite's Unstoppable Force.
  • Malzahar's Nether Grasp (unconfirmed).
  • Maokai's Arcane Smash.
  • Nami's Aqua Prison and Tidal Wave.
  • Nautilus' Dredgeline and Depth Charge.
  • Orianna's Shockwave.
  • Poppy's Heroic Charge.
  • Quinn's Vault.
  • Rammus' Powerball.
  • Rek'Sai's Unburrow.
  • Riven's 3rd Broken Wings.
  • Sejuani's Arctice Assault and Glacial Prison (unconfirmed).
  • Singed's Fling.
  • Sion's Decimating Smash and Unstoppable Onslaught.
  • Skarner's Impale (unconfirmed).
  • Syndra's Scatter the Weak.
  • Thresh's Death Sentence and Flay.
  • Tristana's Buster Shot.
  • Trundle's Pillar of Ice.
  • Urgot's Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser.
  • Vayne's Condemn.
  • Vel'Koz's Tectonic Disruption.
  • Vi's Vault Breaker and Assault and Battery.
  • Volibear's Rolling Thunder.
  • Wukong's Cyclone.
  • Xin Zhao's Three Talon Strike and Crescent Sweep.
  • Zac's Elastic Slingshot (unconfirmed) and Let's Bounce.
  • Ziggs' Satchel Charge.
  • Zyra's Stranglethorns (knock-up).

Edit: I've created a thread on reddit since it seems to get more activity than the boards. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2ttpzf/the_strength_of_shyvana_and_dragons_descent/

49 Comments

Tinnitus1/27/2015, 8:14:11 AM11 votes

The main thing that really puts me off Shyvana, is the hitbox on her ultimate, which is part of the reason why I tend to shy away from playing her sometimes. It is too unreliable as a form of CC, and rarely ever effects champions in a way that was otherwise intended. It gets interrupted way to easily by abilities that at first appear as if they shouldnt be interupting it at all. If Hecarim and Jarvan etc. get CC immunity whilst casting their very similar ults, I think some love should be shown to Shyvana too.

Shyvana

yukumari1/27/2015, 9:17:25 AM2 votes

Her ult is actually affected by straight up stuns too, if i recall corectly. That includes stuns like Udyr, Irelia, ect.

Luner Hunter1/27/2015, 10:01:17 AM2 votes

rito dun care about what "makes thematic sense" remember that Aura Mage named Sona? the one where they TOTALY FUCKING REMOVED HER AURAS? well that "made no thematic sense" but it happened and Fearless said "we're the developers we'll do what we want" so dont look to see anything changed on Shy's ult ESPECIALLY for "thematic sense"

MAZZ1M01/27/2015, 11:47:11 AM1 votes

Even using the R as a reliable form of CC if it were fixed would be problematic as other champs have far more CC to use in a fight far more frequently. Shyvana relying on her ult for CC is still a handicap. CC in her PQWE is still needed somewhere.

DatEpicPotato1/27/2015, 12:04:06 PM1 votes

To be honest, while I do agree these make little sense, I highly doubt a Vi would go out of her way to ult a Shyvana instead of the ADC, and I usually barely bother about Shyvana's ult in the first place.

Sneak Dog1/27/2015, 1:08:47 PM1 votes

Jarvan IV's Demacian Standard-Dragon Strike and Cataclysm. Zac's Elastic Slingshot and Let's Bounce!

These are just not part of that list. J4s flag and drag can be interrupted by any displacement. Zacs elastic slingshot should be affected as well. Let's bounce is not a dash at all, it's a self-targeted buff that periodically knocks people up.

Ahri's Charm. Malzahar's Nether Grasp (unconfirmed). Sejuani's Glacial Prison (unconfirmed).

These won't stop it. They will just let Shyvana finish her jump. They will be applied though and then prevent Shyvana from doing anything after her jump is done if their duration hasn't timed out yet.

Anivia's Crystallize. Trundle's Pillar of Ice.

Only if the creation of this terrain displaces Shyvana while she is ulting. Shyvana can ult over a previously placed crystallize just fine. Fairly sure you meant this though.

Urgot's Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser. Skarner's Impale (unconfirmed). Syndra's Scatter the Weak.

These won't stop it unless they start displacing Shyvana.

Shyvana's ult works like non-ultimate dashes. Knock-ups/knockbacks will stop the dash, other cc will not stop the dash but be applied nevertheless. Most ultimate dashes make the champion immune. Not all though: Ahri Akali Darius Diana Shyvana All of these champions' ults can be stopped halfway.

So out of the 11 non-global mobility ultimates that aren't blinks, 6 cannot be interrupted halfway by displacement and 5 can. With displacement meaning knock-ups and knock-backs in this post.

I do think Shyvanas ult should be a bit shorter and make her cc-immune. Mainly because it's a tanky initiate ultimate. However, it isn't surprising that it doesn't make her cc-immune, that's simply how a dash works in LoL by default.

JJI7441/27/2015, 1:22:45 PM1 votes

Not that I disagree with your point overall, but J4's Q+E combo and Zac's elastic slingshot can both be cancelled, and Zac can still be affected by CC during his ult.

Worth noting is that J4's ult, Anivia wall, and Trundle pillar can all stop your ult even if they are on your own team.

skyfall6191/27/2015, 1:40:57 PM1 votes

why are people trying to rationalize why shyv ult is so weak. shyv ult is one of the coolest ults in the game but is probably the most lackluster ult in the game. when she ult she doesnt gain utility, she doesnt gain dmg, she gains aoe thats it oh and 20 more armor cause thats gamebreaking. you would think shyv would have a decent pick rate becasue her theme is so damn appealing but i wonder why is so low, i would say because of her garbage ult.

Shyvana needs some good loving

Elphrihaim1/27/2015, 2:13:38 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Burrito AU,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qXi39lIh,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-01-27T07:58:27.132+0000)

Complete list of abilities that disrupt Dragon's Descent.

  • Anivia's Crystallize.
  • Jarvan IV's Cataclysm.
  • Malzahar's Nether Grasp (unconfirmed).

These do not interrupt Dragon's Descent

  • Jayce's Thundering Blow.
  • Singed's Fling.
  • Urgot's Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser.
  • Vayne's Condemn.
  • Volibear's Rolling Thunder.
  • Xin Zhao's Three Talon Strike.

These abilities do not execute their effects until after Dragon's Descent has completed.

Jefftiffy1/27/2015, 2:37:37 PM1 votes

Because you are underestimating her ult. Her ult has potentially one of the lowest CDs in the game at level 16. (I mean actual ults). 100 fury where you generate 3 fury per second making the minimum ult recharge 34s. Add in some AAs for 2 fury each and she can easily generate ults less than every 30s. On top of this it doubles her 20 armor and mr passive while doing a pretty hefty base damage as magic. She becomes an AoE machine with high chase and a lot of hybrid damage.

Trying to justify buffing her ult when the power is all in her abilities is ignorance. I play her enough to know her kit. She isn't weak and even if she was the problem isn't her ult.

Jefftiffy1/27/2015, 2:42:27 PM1 votes
  • Anivia's Crystallize.
  • Jarvan IV's Cataclysm.
  • Malzahar's Nether Grasp (unconfirmed).
  • Jayce's Thundering Blow.
  • Singed's Fling.
  • Urgot's Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser.
  • Vayne's Condemn.
  • Volibear's Rolling Thunder.
  • Xin Zhao's Three Talon Strike.

Malzahar's doesn't. J4 ult will only interrupt it if she wasn't going to pass the wall to begin with (durr), but his combo will stop it.

Jayce's blow if timed right will stop it. Singed fling can too. Urgot's ult can. Vayne's E does. Xin's pop up as well as ult can stop it. Voli can too.

Any form of displacement will stop her ult, but suppressions, roots, stuns, etc. will not.

Regardless Shyvana is in an iffy state and got tentative buffs for this season because they were afraid that the new jungle was hurting her too bad after their nerfs.

Drunk Rummate1/27/2015, 3:51:42 PM1 votes

i find the effect of her ult to be really lackluster in general

i love shyvana but nowdays when we've got crap like gnar it just feels so sad to ult into a fight as shyv. i always used to love going in; in skype my friends can attest to me laughing and saying stuff like "I'm a big scary dragon" but now I don't feel all that big and scary anymore when I ult in and gnar just womps me or azir flops me right back out.

Orangesilk1/27/2015, 9:03:05 PM1 votes

She has MANY more problems than the flimsiness of her ult, namely how she'll get kited endlessly by the priority targets she's supposed to deal with, because riot KEEPS STUFFING NEW KITS WITH MOBILITY.

JustMyBassCannon1/27/2015, 10:17:04 PM1 votes

I normally don't care for threads asking for Shyvana buffs. I play her pretty frequently, and I don't have problems playing her. However, I have nothing against people suggesting buffing her.

I've liked the idea of her ultimate being unstoppable, though I'd have to say that this poster nailed a higher priority issue.

{quoted}

The main thing that really puts me off Shyvana, is the hitbox on her ultimate, which is part of the reason why I tend to shy away from playing her sometimes. It is too unreliable as a form of CC, and rarely ever effects champions in a way that was otherwise intended. It gets interrupted way to easily by abilities that at first appear as if they shouldnt be interupting it at all. If Hecarim and Jarvan etc. get CC immunity whilst casting their very similar ults, I think some love should be shown to Shyvana too.

Shyvana

The hitbox on her ultimate seems a bit unreliable. Unless you're directly passing over someone, it has issues with hitting people.

Katsprky1/27/2015, 10:47:53 PM1 votes

I feel like I'm just a god tier Shyvana player and find her completely fine, just because Vi has arguably the strongest ult in the game doesn't make Shyvana any worse. Focusing just on ult is kinda eh... However continuing on with just hte ult, let us not for get about all her other ability's getting buffed when she ults. In a way she is like Karma in the sense that their ult's alter their normal skills. I'm all for having Shyvana get free cc on ult her and being cc immune though she can be played just fine without it. The only reason I don't play Shyvana more is because I don't just myself to carry in ranked.

M0b1us1/28/2015, 8:32:00 AM1 votes

Actually, Sion's ult can be stopped. Anivia can use her wall and block Sion's ult. Its actually pretty funny to see the Sions' reactions.

TheI3igDaddy1/29/2015, 4:15:41 AM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Burrito AU,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qXi39lIh,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-01-27T07:58:27.132+0000)

Should a fat, male human's body produce more force than a dragon's leap? No.

Ehhhhh...idk man. Considering that Gragas seems to be one of the biggest humans around, he's gotta way like 400 pounds. And if he can launch his fat ass in a direction with some degree of speed, it's going to feel like a 16-wheeler smacked into your side.

JChaosMaster1/30/2015, 5:53:49 PM1 votes

I Posted on my own thread that the passive could use the rework and in the http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/8AU00VBr-shyvana-doesnt-suck-she-just-lacks-utilitycc thread the mentioned the Idea of making her Immune to cc to. I say it would make sense and wouldn't make her OP. Saying the idea make her lack counter play is silly to because her own kit counter plays/trolls her.

That's because other Unlike the other champ's who have dashes like Juv or VI everyone failed to mention the biggest draw back/perk of her. There are only 3 champ's who have a transformation power who remain unable to transform at level 1 and those are Renekton, Nasus, and her. Even among them I would rater her's the weakest among them, IE her own kind.

Leaving out All of there Q,W,E abilities and passive's Renekton tops both of them as Dominus has no cost's and last 15 seconds. Only limited by true CD which can be reduced different ways. Then is Nasus need's 100 mana and will last 15 seconds. Both of them get Hp back/increased Plus they both get permanent damage aura's which last 15 seconds as well. Thus making Shyvana's W seem so less impressive.

Shyvana dragon from give's her +10 ARM/MR with her "passive." Her dragon form is the only of the three that deal damage and has mobility. Problem with the damage is it has a Strange hit box and Is increased with AP. This alone both makes no sense and hurt's her over all game. Almost all fighter/tanks struggling on how to decide what to build already. Mostly because a good ADC is basically wiping out tanks instantly in 5's. In 3's which is my field of choice tank/fighter have it far easier. Either way having Ap ratio's on both her E and R mean's they are basically useless skill late game. If you try to build AP that still fit's into her kit your harshly item locked requiring some of the most powerful AP and costly items in the game. Which will then cause another kind of discussion about her vs other Champ's with split ratios. Seeing as Shyana isn't a wizard this item path is pointless and buffing the Ratio's would just make her more confusing.

Her dragon form does alter her Q,W, and E in kinda big ways. Amoung the three above Shyvana's transformation last 20 seconds minimum if you don't attack anything. So in these two ways she is better then Renkton and Nasus.

Now the "Big Downside," she requires both Max furry and still has a cool down on the back of it. So even if you manage to collect furry fast enough with basic and twin claws you still have to wait for the cool down before you can ult again.

Lastly let's look at the current Champ release Meta as in everyone of them almost completely outshines any before them. So just because Shyvana was strong in season "?" wont mean jack this season.

Altricad1/30/2015, 5:56:51 PM1 votes

Jarvan's e-q combo can be disrupted, I did it the other day with Diana 's moonfall.

I always thought shyvana's ulti was cc immune, guess not.

I feel this would be a good buff for shyvana without breaking her, an ultimate with a reasonable cooldown is meant to be powerful. Pls do this justice rito!

FiraBurn1/27/2015, 9:33:13 AM1 votes

It's call counter play all champs have it. If they give her ultimate cc immunity it be way to op. So stop with these post to get her ult to be another malp and vi ult.

ABlueQuaker1/27/2015, 10:28:58 AM1 votes

tbh only knock-ups/backs should disrupt it.