@Riot I may know more about ap ekko than anyone else (i dont play the tanky builds)

The title is a bit of an exaggeration, but I was looking at some of the changes you were going to make to him on the pbe, and Im worried that he is going to become a 100-0 monster.

I realize that there is a temptation to make him this way because of supports like janna. If janna can shut down his gameplay pattern with one q, then he needs a high reward to make it worth while, right? But with the changes to his e, I think his optimal build is going to be abyssal + lichbane (as abyssal currently stands) and hes going to hit this two item spike around the time the adc has 1200 hp. With this change, he is going to be hitting for (70 (two sided q) + 90 (e + lichbane) + 80 (passive dmg)) % of his ap + 400 base dmg. So yea hes going to be nuking people for around 1k dmg with q +e on a 4 second cooldown, but hes still going to have the insane utility he already has.

I really dont like these changes on one level, but I like them on another.

THINGS I DO LIKE:

I like that you are taking away from tank ekko. I really prefer my squishy champions to be squishy and elusive dmg dealers and my tanky champions to be hard to kill support types. I think its fine if they have lethal levels of dmg, but they shouldnt be sticky enough to deliver that dmg continuously. You should be able to retreat from a tank without help, especially if the tank has the dmg to kill you. Tank ekko obviously isnt like that.

The tank goal and tank build centers around surviving. Why are the tank kits i usually see generally about doing some burst dmg during the engage? J4 is like this. Nautilus is like this. Gnar. Leona. No matter how far behind you are as a Nautilus, you will engage on someone and do some dmg even if you do die immediately after using your ulti. Dying that early should be a failure, but it isnt if your team can take advantage of the free lockdown and burst dmg in your kit.

Giving them initiation and making that initiation hurt so much is bad, like nautilus. It means that they dont need to survive, but they just can anyway, because they are tanks. Thats why nautilus support is so goddamn popular.

Now, Garen has a cool execute. He doesnt have godlike engage, but if he lives long enough to see someone get low, then he can just one shot them. Unfortunately, he gets kited to hell and isnt viable compared to more mobile, more tanky, more bursty, higher utility nautilus. But I would like to point out that his ultimate scales properly with survivability and nautilus's does not.

Ekko scales pretty well with with survivability. Im not that upset about his tank builds. I just think that you should be able to retreat from a tank that has high dmg. So thats broken in tank ekko. The only thing that works as a tank is his w passive because it only kicks in later on in the fight and he has to survive long enough to make use of it.

Since you cant escape him, I like that you are nerfing that build.

THINGS I DONT LIKE:

Now, you are also giving him more dmg. Im not sure I like that. I dont like it when I can just delete people with one combo. I like using his speed after proc'cing passive to dodge skillshots, but if I instanuke the enemy adc, does it really matter as much if I outplay or even know what I am going to do next? Cant I just die and then sit back and watch my team win at least most of the time?

I could be overreacting. The fact that maw exists should mean that ekko cant really oneshot anyone, even if you do add dmg. But i def dont want him doing that and I think it shows that you are going in the wrong direction with him. Pure dmg doesnt feel creative enough.

I think that if proc'cing the passive rewarded ekko with more elusivness then thats better than adding dmg. I think that he feels best when he isnt all about one nuclear moment, but is more about chaining one high impact moment to the next with creative use of his flexible kit.

My best moments with ekko have been like this:

I q (two sided) e a tank like maokai. I am able to escape because of my passive and the fact that he was slightly too far forward. Maokai has ~60% of his hp left because he built armor and not MR. He has enough HP to stay in the fight and be useful enough to make things interesting. He just cant take any more dmg, right? So he retreats, but since he is slowed he can be engaged on by one of our other initiators. While thats happening, I can focus on zoning and positioning my w and ultimate. Thats something ekko has over other assassins. He has something usefull to do after unloading a combo. Now, I planned this from the start. I also know that Ill soon be able to threaten the adc. However, I know the adc wont die immediately to me. So, when my chance is coming and morgana has put black sheild on the mage, I put my w between the adc and the team it is hiding behind and i go in. I deal 70% of the adc's hp and stir the anthill. People switch to targeting me. However, I have the w bubble to run to and that allows me to survive the aggro I just drew. My best moments are always about my next move. I was three moves ahead. I planned the maokai engage, I planned the engage on the adc, and I planned to use my shield before I could be focused down. The result was that I was able to nuke morgana and victor with my ultimate, rather than using r as an escape. Yes. I spammed the shit out of that mastery emote.

Ask yourself, if I had killed the adc would I have needed to use my w sheild? No. I wouldnt have needed to survive any crits or victor lasers. Would I have had an opportunity to show how good I am with ekko? No. I nuked the adc while no one was looking. Big fucking deal. I was more proud of my performance because I needed to use w. It was more difficult to do, it was more of a planning effort, and the dramatic tension lasted longer. I used more anticipation and thinking since I didnt have the dmg required to just win. Equally as unimpressive would be if no one can deal dmg to me or peel me because Im so damn tanky and mobile.

I think assassins should look more like ekko when he is using this playstyle. Now, if you give him more dmg, wont his playstyle shift? And wont you need to take power from his other qualities?

His split pushing is also very strong. You can clear entire waves with one q and three autos. If you have a ton of cdr, you can just use two q's and go meet the next wave. You can clear any number of waves before your minions can even catch up to you. If someone comes to contest, you can outplay any squishy person with stun, zhonyas, ulti, and really good cooldowns. You just have to realize that ekko is only good at trading. He has to accumulate good trades, or land his stun to get a successful all in.

Take yasuo for example. He can and will kill you if you give him the scenario he needs. But theres nothing he can do to force that scenario and you can run from him even if you do fuck up. Thats why I think ekko shouldnt have too much dmg. He doesnt usually need it if he plays well. In fact, his kit is better and more fun with a medium high amount of dmg on his basic combo and an overpowered ultimate that can justify spamming your mastery emote if you land it. XD. Tank ekko sort of does this, but he just jumps on you and instead of hit and run, he plays a hit and continue to hit strategy. Theres less drama.

SPLITPUSHING:

If you want him to be a better squishy split pusher, straight ap isnt that effective against someone like darius and you can make him stronger by helping him out. You could make his %hp passive take effect at higher missing hp based on his ap. Just make the cut off for its application scale with his ap so that tank ekko doesnt get any benefit. So it starts to take effect at 30% + (5% per 100 ap) hp. At 600 ap, the passive kicks in at 60% hp. Tank ekko wont even notice it, but ap ekko wont need to take as long to start hurting tanks. Each time he proc's his passive on a tank at 60% hp he would be dealing his normal dmg plus 20% of their missing hp. He would need about 3-4 trades before hes lethal to a tank as opposed to 8 or more that he currently needs.

That whole trading thing is what I like about him. He doesnt 100-0 like zed or talon. With proper play on both sides, he just has access to advantageous trades. In order to really dominate, you have to outplay and continue to outplay. Its not about just one moment of insanely high impact...unless you land that ulti XD. It makes him feel more like a champion that you have to understand what you are going to do and what you are going to do next. Getting the result he wants instantly with lethal dmg instead of needing to following a longer term plan or pattern makes him less interesting to me. Its cooler if I have to actually fight the person who shows up to stop my pushing. If I just combo and win, that sucks. Id rather have more tools to keep up the outplays than even more dmg which would devalue my ability to continuously outplay.

THIS WOULD MAKE EKKO EVEN MORE FUN:

I think I would rather have a reset on the e after you proc the three hit passive and some ap ratios that shift him from tank to ap build. He could use another tool to help him build a follow up plan of action. He doesnt get enough dmg from proc'ing the passive in my ideal world. If you give a reset on the e he can have less burst dmg associated with it and more follow up afterwards. Remember it still counts as an auto attack as well. If hes far enough ahead, Q+E+E+W-Passive-Dmg might be a 100-0 combo and I think thats justified. He can have the trade-first-all-in-later playstyle while also weakening his tank build, but you need to rework the w and his passive base dmg's to make tank items less effective in general and to make the w kick in earlier against tanky champs if he is building ap.

Idk how you give him a good early game if hes got shitty base dmg tho. The reset on e might just do it if you also get mana back. If you need to limit that reset. Only reset if he uses e on the third application of passive. If he goes straight in, no reset?