Ashe is outdated

hairnuffsaid44·10/24/2014, 11:10:21 PM·60 votes·6,499 views

So she is one of the oldest champions in the game and definitely outdated. She is an AD carry with 3 passives, two active combat abilities and no steroids or escapes. Those three passives are not really that great either: She has to stay out of combat to build up crit chance, her slow on Q is only decent at max rank, and her gold per cs doesn't even help her that much. Her W is an okay spell, with some okay damage; the slow on it is nice but it doesn't last long for a spell.

I'll talk about her passive first. Like I said before she has to stay out of combat to build up crit chance. In lane phase it isn't that useful because anyone who knows how to play the game knows to stay away from her until she has used her passive on cs. As Ashe you can't go all out just to get one good hit with that crit, and you can't wait for them to get closer. Otherwise, you would end up losing creep score. Now let's fast forward a bit to mid/late game. By that time she should have IE and have Statik Shiv done or almost done; assuming that she hasn't completely lost her lane to the popular spell ADs or the faster harder hitting AA ADs who tend to also have escapes. She should be around 60% crit chance like most ADs in the game, which is more than enough to crit the majority of auto attacks. This basically renders her 100% crit chance passive obsolete. The biggest problem is that you only have that 100% crit chance in the beginning of fights. It is not combat oriented. Once you use it on the tank, because they are probably the closest to you, it's gone until the next team fight. It should continue to stack in combat, or perhaps for every auto attack that doesn't crit you get bonus % crit chance until you crit. Another idea would be that she starts out with 10% crit chance at level 1. This would make her laning phase unique and a unique champion in general. This crit chance would increase as she increases levels and by 18 she could have 20% crit chance. Giving her about 80% crit chance at late game, but like I said before 60% is enough for most ADs. She could maybe just have a completely new passive.

Her Q, Frost Shot, seems to be her only useful passive ability, but it is still lacking. First off, it is not noticeable until max rank. This is when permaslow really kicks in with the combination of Q and her W, Volley. However, Ashe must level up W first for the damage. Her Q won't be max rank until level 13. Secondly, most champions in this game have some sort of dash to close in on Ashe, rendering this slow useless because they can catch her anyways, or to escape her permaslow. She has an entire ability used just as a passive slow that isn't even up to par with the rest of the game. I think this ability could have another passive while it's active: some sort of bonus damage. I'm thinking bonus flat magic damage that scales with ad.

Her E, Hawkshot, is another lame spell. It has a long cooldown to reveal an area of the map for a few seconds. The passive is obsolete as well. The bonus gold doesn't help much and compared to Draven's bonus gold, it's nothing. We have all seen the Draven with over 250, maybe 400 stacks on his passive. When he get's a kill he can get as much as 800 gold with this passive. It can happen multiple times in a game. By the end of the game most ADs have 200-300 cs. This would mean that Ashe would have about 600-900 gold. This doesn't sound too bad, but keep in mind that this at the END of the game. Like all champions in this game, she is item dependent, but I think she is more dependent on items due to her lack of abilities; both damage and escape. She needs items to keep up with most other champions. Somehow this bonus gold needs to have more instant gratification like Draven's. A lot of champions now have a utility escape spell on their E, but Ashe is not one of them. I feel like her Hawkshot reveal should somehow help her with that. I'm thinking something like bonus movement speed in the area revealed. Perhaps a dash or teleport towards that direction. The range on Hawkshot would obviously be lower. I'm still not sure if this would be enough because she is squishier than a lot of other champions and everyone has a leap or two in their kit, not including flash (Vi).

Her ultimate is the most reliable ability she has and really defines her and makes her a unique champion. There are no other ADs that can initiate and this is what makes her relevant in the game if at all. It doesn't require much change. Her W could use a little tweaking as of now, but maybe with some changes that I mentioned above it might now. I definitely feel like she is the worst AD champion in the game, but I do like her. She requires a really good team with a lot of peel to keep her alive. By late game her team fight isn't that strong because she herself gets zoned out by fighers and tanks, and her kit and items are not capable of fighting them off; only staying alive if they can't use their dashes to catch her. I've had some good games and some bad games with her, but those good games could have been a lot easier if she had an up to date kit.

Sorry if you saw this thread on the Skins and Champion Concepts board. I didn't realize they would take it down and they told me it was in the wrong board. I'm pretty sure this is the right one.

114 Comments

5G8Nri0B5410/24/2014, 11:15:50 PM25 votes

I agree that she could use an update. And they should start with her nonexistent Passive that is only useful for level-1 cheese.

darkdill10/24/2014, 11:13:30 PM22 votes

The problem is actually Ashe's ultimate: it takes up almost ALL of her power budget, requiring the rest of her to suck due to how it can make or break a game. Unfortunately, it's also impossible to nerf without making people b!tch about it.

I'd really love to see Ashe get a remake, but Riot seems not to care.

Dominick Destine10/24/2014, 11:38:16 PM16 votes

Her passive is terrible.

Fix that and Ashe becomes viable.

Rikari10/25/2014, 12:03:34 AM7 votes

Shes a god of kiting,but then again,Caitlyn Ezreal Corki Tristana Lucian and of course Morgana delete her kill potential. All shes worth is her ultimate. Imo they should REMOVE the double crit on yasuo and give it to her,also make her E a short ranged jump that can cross walls. Ashe is now bannable. ok maybe not the gap closer,but that E is sorta useless. Riot rework pleeeeeeeeeeeease. #BUFF THE SISTERS ASHE+QUINN AND SIVIR #YOU CAN BUY:

#ASHE'S Q item 3022 #QUINN'S W/ASHE'S E item 3363 #SIVIR'S E item 3102 NO REFLEXES

SIVIR'S R item 3069

#BETTER COOLDOWNS BETTER COSTS

GoodHotFreshFly10/25/2014, 6:01:26 PM4 votes

Ashe is completely fine. I don't think you see what her purpose is at all.

Ashe is a UTILITY based carry. So how could Riot possibly make a utility-based carry? By giving her utility based spells, hence all the CC and the E vision. She is also probably the BEST champion in the game at kiting. Why? Kiting isn't just attacking and running away, it requires some skill since you have to walk away right as the attack projectile leaves you to cover as much distance as you can. Riot was smart enough to make her auto attack animation easy to follow, making her a great champion to practice kiting. Plus, her Q slow helps her kite GREATLY. I don't see another champ whose basic attacks slow an enemy or make them run faster (except Sivir but it's really only used to catch up to enemies instead of kite them). So you say she's item dependent? That's where her E passive comes into play. It actually does help her a lot. It may not be a lot, but even gold for 1 cs is a lot, so I don't really see your point there. Her E is actually very useful. Its range is HUGE and it's vision radius is also HUGE. It may have a 60 second cooldown, but don't wards, which have a lot lower range and visual radius than her E have a cooldown like that? Also, her ult is so amazing. So marksmen can't initiate teamfights because they are squishy, right? Wrong. Ashe is amazing late game when you want to initiate teamfights. You can just shoot your ult straight at them, dealing a lot of damage, and stunning and slowing people. Not really that useless... Also what do you mean by 3 passives? Ashe only has two. Her Q slow is just a toggled ability it's not a passive...

Long story short, Ashe is not outdated. She is just a utility-based marksman, which is what Riot is going for, which I don't really see any other utility-based marksmen these days. Riot doesn't want to change her at all, so I don't know why you say that Riot wants to keep changing her but people keep bitching about it.

Anyways, I hope I gave you some insight as to why Ashe is like that. She's not outdated. She's utility based.

Wehrmacht Bunny10/25/2014, 8:06:01 PM3 votes

I love Ashe right now. She's a basic and fun champion, where you don't have to spam Combos 24/7.

Chaos Open10/26/2014, 3:41:40 AM3 votes

I fail to see how she could be improved without making her either OP or nerfing her. She is perfectly viable. If you've been paying attention, generally, the more CC a champ has, the less escapes it has. Ashe brings a lot to the table, she has a wide range of attacks. I use her all the time and have a lot of success and find her to be a very well rounded champion. She is very much a safe pick, in contrast to the current favorites, Lucian, who falls off late game, or Tristana, who only gets good late game, Ashe's damage curve is rather even throughout the game. Bringing decent damage from beginning to end and with all her slows it makes her very deadly. As for escapes, Ashe is the classic ADC, she stands in the back and takes down the front line of the enemy to let the rest of her team get access to the squishier members of the other team.

Honestly, I don't see room for improvement. They need to spend their time on champs that are actually having problems. Champs such as Riven, Shaco, and Poppy could use some work.

NIEKUH10/26/2014, 9:43:34 AM2 votes

http://i.imgur.com/luHjGfr.gif

update the ashe woot win streaks overrated!!!

EvilRabbitt10/25/2014, 2:54:13 AM2 votes

Don't mean to be rude, but I didn't read all the way through. Poor Ashe is so far outtdated, it used to be the same way when people heard "Lets do Sion" they used to laugh. Now Ashe is either let by quietly and raged at all game, or same laughter. Ashe's turn peeps, Sion got his, now Ashe. =( My $.02.

4nth0l0gy10/25/2014, 7:14:39 AM2 votes

Welp, I always say if you're going to point out a problem, you should try to provide or at least encourage a solution if it's in your capacity. So, let's redesign Ashe.

Ashe Core concepts: -She slows things. Blah blah Iceborn blah blah Fraiyljhourde, As such: -She cannot, under any circumstance, have a personal movement speed buff or repositioning ability, unless it has severe repercussions. -She, unlike Twitch for example, is all about accuracy. -She is Queen of the Freljord. This is a harsh, sparse land, but royalty has its perks. (That being said, they may not be monetary given the region.) -She is, because of this, a leader, and all about unity and working together. She's a support-type ADC, a very rare breed perhaps all her own. -She is seemingly blessed in some way by Avarosa. -She DOES have a hawk in her lore. I think it's stupid, considering Quinn exists; we'll see if that matters.

(Continued in second post)

Jungle Lux God10/25/2014, 7:16:00 PM2 votes

I feel like Ashe is both outdated and was developed ahead of her time.

On the one hand, her Frost Shot, a permaslow, is a mechanic that is inherently unhealthy for the game, and has been removed from several champions in the past for more impactful CC, which was the case with both Sejuani and Skarner, and Focus is a passive that is useless for a large portion of the game.

However, Ashe has a distinct niche that separates her from other ADCs: she has more utility than any other ADC, whether we are considering her Frost Shot's repeatable slow, her Hawkshots extra vision, or her Enchanted Crystal Arrow's global stun, she gives herself a unique niche for control and initiation that no other ADC has in the game. With Riot's current design philosophy of having unique strengths and weaknesses of their champions, Ashe fits right in. Back when League of Legends was released, where Riot was a small group of people who were more concerned with getting a fun and engaging game out to the public than with the health, balance, and uniqueness of each champion, Ashe is a downright amazing feat.

Does she really need to be updated? The answer is yes, but because of game health and not because she is outdated.

Meruvin10/26/2014, 4:28:56 AM2 votes

Outdated doesn't mean weaker. Ashe is a late game champ. Her passives are for her early game which is farming (crit = sure cs / no cost hawkshot = extra gold income and vision). Please don't change champ that will go with some players playstyle. Players should adapt to their champs abilities. I think Ashe is OP as she is. If you think differently then she is not for you.

NIEKUH10/26/2014, 9:42:46 AM2 votes

RE WORK ASHE WOOT ... bump for love and ohh some ashe win streaks woot

http://imgur.com/luHjGfr

Slachi10/25/2014, 5:19:47 AM1 votes

Ashe is fine. Stop building her ad and instead build around her ult and w. Rush Essence Reaver, take CDR boots, 15% CDR@18 blues.

She's absolutely brutal when combined with Ziggs.

Hayaishi10/25/2014, 12:57:16 AM1 votes

Ashe is fine, everybody that says otherwise is bad.

She does what she is meant to do perfectly. What else do you want? Hypercarry level DPS? AD caster burst? she's fine.

She has a fine winrate and pick rate as well.