"The jungle sucks"....or does it?

IP Masquerena·12/26/2019, 1:07:02 PM·2 votes·1,322 views

Hope you are all having a Merry Christmas and that our lord and savior Santa Rito didn't give you as many Yasuo-Zed-Lee mains in your team that are playing Shaco.

Now, let's get down to business...to defeat the hun...wrong song, sorry.

We all the new mantra on the boards, which is cosplaying R-ing Tryndamere, sitting at the keyboard and spamming with your right arm that the jungle sucks and how they are at the mercy of the team.

Well, my question is, does the jungle indeed suck or are just players failing to adapt to new pathings? Yes, pathings matter a lot, and to experiment a little, I took my Evelynn and used the very old season nine pathings, not updating my pathing to reflect how changes affected it, and well, I can say that while playing like that, the mantra from the boards is true, I just couldn't do much, even in games where I got ahead I didn't felt like I'm having any impact, and it's not because I was playing Evelynn, the pathing sucks hard.

Had a Kha'zix and Kayn game where I didn't do much, in the Kha'zix game, Irelia and Susan refused to ward, and I mean it, at twenty mins, zero vision score, and Irelia refused to help the team, Zed roaming on every push or invading me along their Eve, while Irelia....was thirty cs down on Zed, no tower plates, while Zed wasn't in lane. The Kayn game, I just couldn't do anything, not because I didn't want to, Morkaiser was Jhin kills down and kept hard pushing into Renekton, so diving that without my R would be dumb, Ziggs was doing what Irelia did the previous game, and bot was hard stomping, which is why we won it.

Why I am mentioning all that? Simply, it's not to say laners are trash, which is the mantra junglers employ, which is partially true, but to prevent the "oh, but look at this game where you did crap" from the boards, which isn't too uncommon since in another thread, someone used five games that I played more than a year ago to trying to dismiss my whole topic, ignoring all the other games since then.

So yes, bad pathing + bad team mates = trash jungle.

Now, the last game I played, I took up Rengar, which is not a champion I'm familiar with, but there's a reason for that. I wanted to experiment with the pathing alone, not a case of "my experience on the champion is what won it", I just wanted to see how much impact I can get just by changing my jungle pathing to a more adapted one, and well, it was massive. With little experience on Rengar, and yes we lost the game, as Yasuo did Yasuo things, refusing to ult in fights, Aatrox confessed he doesn't know to play his champ but kept being a backseat player trying to tell me and Vayne how to play while he was dying in the minion wave (yes, that happened once, he wasn't watching his lane, but us, so the enemy minions actually killed him as he stood still). Back to topic, just changing the jungle pathing gave me a huge boost to the impact I can have on the map.

So while yes, team mates can suck, but hey, I'm playing both jungle and laning, and I can confess that junglers can suck just as much (when your Qiyana dies twice to the Blue buff, you can agree that said jungler sucks), the junglers not adapting to the new pathings when the jungle changes can reflect that in their w/r much more than laners being crap.

And yes, even tho people cry "you don't even get autofilled when playing jungle and always get autofilled jungle even when playing support", that's not true, at least not for me, heck, I got autofilled ADC when queing as a jungler.

So how to know to path better? Well, obviously by watching much better players play, but since there is now no "set in stone" path like in the previous season, so watching just gameplays from the higher ranks won't do much, even more so if said vid is not a gameplay with commentary, so what you need to do is watch actual vids made for teaching. The ones I recommend the most are vids from Virkayu and from Skill Capped, but to make it easier for the players here, as we know how much many of them love to go do their research (less than a month ago some players cried Akali should lose her innate healing, ministun and her Obscure, and as anyone who reads at the very least patch notes, knows that two of those things are gone for over a year now, while all three are gone now, but hey, those who cried clearly don't even know what champions do)

So here are two videos meant to help players a little more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfSwhUwzcOw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1pXBCjzBCs

8 Comments

The Highest Noon12/26/2019, 1:47:34 PM3 votes

I think the jungle is fine. You know what this new season feels like? It's requiring more synergy between the jungler and laners. I have the most success when allies follow pings and keep eyes on the map for ganks/to help out. It's when allies aren't doing shit to assist that the jungle feels like a slog.

PhearBunny12/26/2019, 1:19:43 PM2 votes

Junglers are very limited if their opposing Jungler receives assistance on Scuttle skirmishes. Also very limited if their mid laner has no agency, and the opposing mid laner has alot of agency.

Lets say enemy mid laner has alot of agency and your mid laner cant really do much. Well, Scuttle crabs are basically off the table for you. Which costs vision, gold and experience. Those losses snowball into more macro-losses, which snowballs into more macro-losses. Sometimes mid laner differencials can make it so you cant even farm in your own jungle, which is catastrophic considering there's no catchup exp.

there are alot of games where outside presence on the jungle role is kind of neutral and both junglers are playing with teammates that don't support their jungle, and in those games Jungle comes off as a balanced role, but in the games where laners understand lane/jungle priority, and know how to setup/protect their jungler, and the other teams jungler has a bunch of clueless gold players who only understand microplay and are 100% clueless on macroplay ESPECIALLY jungle macroplay...that jungler is screwed. he has no chance to compete with the other jungler through no fault of his own.

The thigh guy12/28/2019, 4:59:56 AM2 votes

The issue is, even with good pathing and being able to sit and power farm in your jungle with no interruptions, you cannot get ahead of or be even on par with the solo lanes.

I had a game recently. Olaf jungle.

I was around level 16 with 230ish cs which is a lot for a jungler. 12/4/13. So a very very good game. At this time the enemy Jax was level 18 with 160ish cs while being 5/8/0.

So he was dead longer than me. Had less map presence than me. Had less cs than me. Yet still hit level 18 while being 2 full levels ahead of me.

That’s the problem.

Hi im 1212/26/2019, 2:29:35 PM1 votes

does the jungle suck ass now? yes it does, is it a bad thing? not really.

PhearBunny12/27/2019, 11:24:23 AM1 votes

its just a bad solo que role, because coordination and an understanding of macroplay doesnt really appear until youre in Diamond. And even then, its still kinda rare to come across.