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Playing ADC is suffering

NullDragon··35 votes·4,629 views

Title. The entire enemy team wants to kill you, and specifically you. You are super important for the team to kill towers, and you are a significant part of the teams DPS in fights. You scale incredibly well with items, to the point where you are encouraged to buy only one defensive item.

Item variety is complicated by Bloodthirster being the only generically relevant defense item that your class can use early to mid game. Last whisper is required, as your role requires you to deal damage to their WHOLE team, and you don't have true damage(unless you're vayne or Corki). Infinity Edge also feels required, as a large amount of your damage comes from critical hits, and it's a unique source of a damage multiplier. Aside from a few triforce, blade of the ruined king, or Bloodthirster Kalista(which I think was patched out by Riot) builds, you build damage.

Aside from being expected to consistently maneuver to deal damage and survive for as long as teamfights persist, you also heavily rely on your teammates for everything. Your support peels for you. Your AP carry takes out threats to you. You probably have a fighter pulling threat from you by being an immediate threat for their team to deal with. You might even have another tank peeling for you with your support. Someone else on your team(with few exceptions, Ashe comes to mind some of the time) will be initiating. Even if you CAN initiate, you rely on teammates to follow up so you don't die to a sneeze.

Anyone on your team makes a mistake, and you could just die immediately from it. Rengar just distills the frustration of what it's like to be an ADC into a single kit. Everyone has to protect you, and because of that, someone making a mistake means you just die. Sometimes someone DOESN'T make a mistake and you die. Because the ADC is 'important' like that.

I really hope that Riot marksman itemization changes can help with that, like the juggernaut changes did. Looking forward to them coming out very soon. I'd be happy even if damage is nerfed(part of the problem is ADC vs ADC feels pretty random as well).

65 Comments

NemeBro28 votes

If ADC players don't want to be team reliant and prone to getting focused down and curbstomped, then they should probably try to get Riot to make it so that their class is no longer the single most important class in the entire game. Because as long as it is the most important class, guess what? You're going to be the focus of everyone on the enemy team's attention, and should be.

NullDragon8 votes

I'm okay with this. I WANT this to happen.

Really, we're on the same side.

NemeBro3 votes

{quoted}

I'm okay with this. I WANT this to happen.

Really, we're on the same side.

That's fair, but unfortunately I doubt it's possible.

The most important strength of an ADC isn't even their sustained, ranged damage. It's their safe objective control and tower pushing. Other champions (Tryndamere, Yi, Nasus) can actually take turrets more quickly than most ADCs, but they can't do so nearly as safely in a siege. Because they're ranged and AD, so if you're neither of those things you simply can't take turrets as effectively in most cases.

Another aspect of this is that they're in bottom lane, which is where dragon is. Dragon is one of the most important early objectives, so it's only natural that when other lanes run TP, it's to TP bot, curbstomp the enemy bot lane, and then take dragon. Because bottom lane is more important.

Riot does at least try to be changing ADCs being necessary in bot lane at least, as seen with Mordekaiser (bot lane AP bruiser) and Kindred (an ADC that jungles).

Smithney1 votes

Top laners are getting some relevant objectives in the next season (cough Rift Herald cough), so the lane might step up in game impact.

Anyway, recently I tried to promote an idea of bruisers becoming a thing in botlane. However, as it would seem, it ended up being a failure, be it because of the lack of interest, or reluctance to change (or because I used a stupid title).

Now I'm wondering whether it's my style that is bad, or people just don't want the marksman meta to change...

Only Play Darius13 votes

Side effect of ADC's being the only reliable siege, as a result being the only class you are always required to have on your team if you expect to win. Split pushing gets nerfed repeatedly and melees can only take towers if they are so fed they can dive without worry.

I hate playing ADC too, its a lot of pressure knowing that although I have the easiest job mechanics wise, if I screw up I throw the game harder than any other class.

Diananmen Square10 votes

I only find suffering the lack of diversity of ADCs.

Literally 70% of games it's either against Jinx or Vayne.

At least when Graves was meta he did pay in his late game because of his range, but Vayne's self-peel early game is ridiculous on a hypercarry.

NemeBro9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Exotic Tuna Can,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q8IEuAnN,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-10-28T13:18:40.002+0000)

I only find suffering the lack of diversity of ADCs.

Literally 70% of games it's either against Jinx or Vayne.

At least when Graves was meta he did pay in his late game because of his range, but Vayne's self-peel early game is ridiculous on a hypercarry.

Do you know why there is less variety among ADCs? Because they all have the same job, so whoever is doing that one job better at the time is going to be picked most. It isn't like top lane where you can get champions as diverse as Fiora, Malphite, Shen, or Gangplank. All ADCs do basically the same thing.

Also, Graves paid for his late game compared to people like Vayne, but he was still an ADC. All ADCs are late game carries. That some were also lane bullies meant that they tended to win lane and curbstomp the game afterwards, which meant they were picked.

Thats a Bingo1 votes

Well hopefully, the ADC preseason changes fix that. Graves is going to have aoe autoattacks that function like his live Q. So yeah, I'm pretty optimistic about this.

Ralanr1 votes

My only issue with Graves is that the best damage for his abilities is upclose, while any other ADC (and it's suicide to do this in general) have their damage as static (in comparison to Graves) no matter their range.

Maybe it's just me, but that's always been my biggest problem when playing Graves. I can't get close enough without dying.

SnipingwithStyle1 votes

That's why most Vayne players are toxic af, they don't need us to peel XD.

Xanes1 votes

That's why Vayne is so popular....she can actually do stuff on her own.

Teechmehow2dougy6 votes

The problem I see at the moment is that the power-curves of each champion archetype aren't exactly favorable to ADCs.

  • With the exception of a few mages, supports start off with robust stats and sustain a pretty consistent level of power that starts off higher than the average champ. The utility also brings in additional power that's different from raw stats and damage, and makes them more impactful even as their front loaded damage starts to be less effective or other champs start ramping up.

  • Bruisers start off with one of the higher power levels and ramp up incredibly quickly both with levels and itemization. Their strength lies in their innate robustness and ability to do damage with minimal offensive purchases. This makes a lot of sense since this sets them up to be dominant in the midgame since nobody will have resistances for their high base damage, and their mix of hp/resistances/offense will negate other champs early buys (probably with no resistance penetration). Right now it feels like they don't lose traction as the game goes on and remain very powerful throughout the game (maybe why toplaners have been so key in worlds this year). Ideally this archetype should lose a significant amount of power late in the game, or else they'd be relatively strong all game long.

  • Mages* have a similar power-curve with levels gained to bruisers but scale even harder with items. The majority of mages don't have the luxury to invest too heavily on defensive stats and also don't have the same stat growth as the bulky bruisers. Mages ramp up quickly and spike hard in the midgame after their second level of their ult or big item completion. Early MR items can negate a bit of their damage but ultimately the MR itemization is a little more lackluster than armor for a lot of champs. Once Void staff is complete, MR items really lose their value and makes mages hurt like no other. Despite all this mages are very killable compared to bruisers, similar to ADCs, but their arsenals usually contain enough utility to protect themselves.

*Very similar to how AD assassins or Fighters play out with the exception of resistance itemization discrepancies.

  • Not gonna go too much into junglers. Not only am I a bad jungler, but most of them are really just bruisers and mages more suited to the jungle than the lane. These thrive off their base damage and spell utility to get ganks off without the gold luxury laners have. Their power-curve is heavily dependent on the champ itself and the enchant path. Some are dominant very early on and transition to average utility bruisers. Some have very weak early ganks and farm something like sated to fight toe to toe with other laners. Not being a jungle expert I'll end it there.

  • Now finally the ADC. Most item dependent archetype in the game, poor defensive stat growth and doesn't scale as well with levels as other archetypes. Many also lack meaningful ways to protect themselves on top of being arguably the squishiest person in the game due to lack of early defensive itemization. Has the hardest time ramping up and is very prone to being outclassed early before they get to bring their worth to the table. Individual plays like split pushing and assassinating are very risky or downright silly in the context of the meta (especially with teleport). So you ramp up for most of the game with little ability to be a playmaker, and you can be shut down in the earlier portions of the game by other archetypes. Surely ADCs are completely dominant in the lategame? As the seasons have gone it has gotten to the point where only ADCs like Jinx really hold that kind of power. A real big payoff for their early weakness. As it stands, ADCs are necessary for pushing towers and consistent damage but that's about it. As an ADC player you don't really get to feel as powerful as other archetypes do when they peak. He'll if you're not Jinx or Vayne I'd argue other archetypes have more of a say on the game right now than adcs lategame.

ADC's should either have harder spikes in power or utility earlier, or be very dominant in the lategame as payoff for their ramp-up weakness. Hopefully my ADCbaby bias doesn't show too much :)

Teemo or Feedmo6 votes

playing supp is also suffering.

your adc kills himself. it's your fault.

i might get downvoted to oblivion

Ralanr5 votes

Last nights I played Lucian bot. I didn't even get fed and the enemy team kept camping me, I was pretty much 0/5/5. I can't remember.

I hate bot lane. I'm not a fan of top lane this week due to Darius free week (I hate laning against him) and everyone is going to grab jg first to try Kindred. I can't try out mid cause it's either the first or third taken.

I hate bot.

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

To quote the great Sky Williams: "Play Caitlyn, drop traps near your turret, and play like a total bitch." That is the recipe for success in bot lane.

....Or just play Draven and just murder the hell out of anyone who tries to gank you. Dominate your lane. Be a boss. League of Draven.

Ralanr1 votes

Tried Draven once. Could not get used to catching his axes.

nightsharks1 votes

You have to stand still more or less it's weird

Ralanr1 votes

The positioning was actually frustrating. But maybe that's just me.

nightsharks1 votes

Yeah, I'm a Kalista main, so it's a big change from hopping back and forth everywhere. But hey, diversity, right?

Ralanr1 votes

Eh, really I just don't like playing marksmen most of the time. Some seem interesting (Lucian and Graves are some I'd consider. I do own Graves) but I just can't get into the habit. I honestly dread getting stuck in bot lane since you have to play a ranged ADC (I don't know how Mordekaiser bot works. I mostly die when trying it, but I suck in general) or a support (And I just love needing to babysit). Trying to go melee in bot lane just involves getting poked from a far with basic autos.

That's actually why I hate fighting ranged top laners, that poke is annoying and I can never get close enough to hurt them in the laning phase. I'm generalizing obviously, I just feel at a massive disadvantage when I'm a melee champion and I'm laning against a ranged champion. Obviously there should be a disadvantage, but it irks me sometimes.

SnipingwithStyle1 votes

As a Caitlyn main I agree, that's exactly what I do, drop down zoning traps, poke them down, be almost ungankable with my escape and warding, then bot tower goes down and pretty much the game.

Zebekn5 votes

Would have to agree at least somewhat. Its not really fair that for example darius can be super tanky and at the same time still delete people. all because he doesnt have a ranged auto attack. kinda dumb.

AsphodelNext4 votes

Urgot "Eternal life, endless torture" Pretty much the only ADC I know of that can get away with building tanky. You're not a real tank by any means, but you can use your ult, swap into the middle of the enemy team, and not die immediately afterwards.

Zebekn3 votes

I don't have any issue with being the focus of the enemy team, but where i think its bullshit is that darius can deal just as much damage as me and can tank more than 10 times as much. really stupid. espeically with new thornmail.

LeiRaion2 votes

ADC is a very fun role to play, it's extremely important as you said... I don't mind so much having to rely on teammates in order to be at your full effectiveness as it is a team game... The thing I do mind is that when I am positioned in the back and Vi flashes a wall and max range ults me and smashes my face in before I can move.

It's not fun to be 9-0 and die instantly to a 2-5 bruiser. Rengar, as you said, is even worse. You can carry a pink ward with you all you want it doesn't mean shit if your team doesn't defend you... hell even if they do sometimes he'll still global you.

NullDragon1 votes

That, basically. I don't mind them being less important, and yeah it is fun. I like putting out sustained damage, and autoattacks can be quite fun.

But you're out of position once, or your support messes up the peel on you, and Vi gets in on you and obliterates you. Or you get assassinated. Or Garen ults you, or Darius ults you, or Olaf runs in on you and noone has the damage to burst him down, and... so on.

Again, really something I hope the upcoming marksman changes in the Preseason can change.

MetalGearTeemu2 votes

I can't wait for whatever items they improve marksmen with to make vayne, jinx, and tristi completely unkillable while casually 3-4v1ing :D

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

When you build full AD you die to anything, even supports can solo the adcs... You can't expect to have 300-400 AD full build and not to instantly die. Your score means nothing. You are there to push objectives fast, not to be idolized. Rengar building full AD is also ADC, so don't rage when someone deletes you with crits and burst dmg.

LeiRaion6 votes

MLDzXnRRR don't pretend that it's okay for a 10-0 ADC to get deleted in less than a second by a 0-7 Rengar.

Yes, ADCs are important so will be focused, yes they have sustain over burst. But it's not fun to have to build full damage and more or less purely rely on your team for survival...

It's not fun to have a Darius at 30% charge at you, flash WQ auto ULT and kill you instantly.

It is very frustrating to have to rely on your team for survival.. And before anyone starts talking about positioning: Your positioning can be challenger level and it will make little difference if your team ignores helping you in teamfights.

Gaddafi1 votes

But it is ok man. That is difference between great adc player and mediocre adc player. Great ones are hard to catch, because, just maybe, they actually use the fact that they have range advantage against most of other champs in this game.

SnipingwithStyle1 votes

That's why I play in a pre-made with my friends so I don't get brain dead teammates that don't peel XD.

euJHINius2 votes

While ADCs do have issues in survivability, they are balanced, in my opinion. They have high range and damage, so giving them better ways of survivability creates bigger problems. I think the issue is more that they are required to build full damage, and not any tank item. Black Cleaver is probably the only one that could work on an ADC, giving them good damage and health, in my opinion. Also Darius is buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulllll

JSTIN82 votes

Oh god almighty what I wouldnt give to make adc's the "Always Needed" class. Unfortunately I am scared to death that these adc changes are just going to make us have an adc meta for the next 6 months. As a tank main, I fear for the future.

nightsharks2 votes

I was playing Nasus top, and for some reason they had a solo Caitlyn top, that was not fun. I couldn't leave my tower and farm, hell she poked me out even while I was under tower because of her range

Chuck Charles1 votes

eh adc can be un fun or it can be a lot of fun.

the most frustrating part of adc is that its like nothing like any other role. Until late game, everything in this game can kill you and relatively quickly if they can get on top of you (why positioning most important on an adc). Tanks can kill you, Bruisers can explode you, mages exlode you, assassins say hi and you are deleted, and the enemy adc can and will kill you if they outplay you the only types of champs thta cannot delete you are supports. and hell sometimes even supports can do that. (zyra, lux, annie) The supports also have a way of screwing you over by setting up the other roles.

everything in this game up until about 4 items can just ignore you if you are alone which leaves you with a sense of a lack of independence. That is unlike any other role.

ADC can be fun though in my honest opinion. Because, it requires the best positioning and awareness. (knowing which CC and abilities have been used is key) But if you play your cards right you can win fights just by existing sometimes. the amount of times I've had two or three people ignore my team just to dive me and i manage to peel off and flash back and heal myself and be at 20% while my team melts the people chasing me is huge. sometimes just surviving their attempts to dive you is huge. And the aftermath of surviving that assasination attempt? huge ramifications. You will melt the entire team singlehandedly. You can be jinx and just go from scared little puppy running away to reset city and taking over the game.

the reason people dont like ADC? it can feel very dependent on others and is the least forgiving of all the roles in the game. make one mistake at adc and you are probably a goner.

the reason people LIKE adc? its fun to carry and take over the game with supreme positioning and mechanics.

MetalGearTeemu1 votes

I miss the good old days when CC was strong enough that melee duo lanes were possible and you could send your adc top into a favorable matchup against a slow bruiser.

Sion/Garen bot... those were the days...

Throw Gaze, follow up with 2.5 second silence... stomp support or adc to death, return to the brush to wait.

Korillo1 votes

I'm not sure I see the issue. It's that way for the adc's on each team. They know their role, they know the enemy team is looking to take them out. It's their job to position themselves in such a way that they can deal damage without getting bursted, and you know what, it's really hard sometimes, especially if you're not getting much help from your team.

It sounds to me that you are more opposed to the current meta of the game. Almost everyone agrees that having an ADC is the optimal way to play the game - although Mordekaiser filling that roll has changed it a little one could argue. Bruiser bot lanes are always interesting and give team fights a bit of a different flavour.

At the end of the day, mistakes should cost you. I think that's important. At the end of the day, it's usually the team that makes the least amount of mistakes that is going to win, and that's the way it should be.

Hayaishi21 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure I see the issue. It's that way for the adc's on each team. They know their role, they know the enemy team is looking to take them out. It's their job to position themselves in such a way that they can deal damage without getting bursted, and you know what, it's really hard sometimes, especially if you're not getting much help from your team.

It sounds to me that you are more opposed to the current meta of the game. Almost everyone agrees that having an ADC is the optimal way to play the game - although Mordekaiser filling that roll has changed it a little one could argue. Bruiser bot lanes are always interesting and give team fights a bit of a different flavour.

At the end of the day, mistakes should cost you. I think that's important. At the end of the day, it's usually the team that makes the least amount of mistakes that is going to win, and that's the way it should be.

It doesn't matter if that's the way it should be. Op is talking about how horrible it is to be such a team dependant role that your individual skill doesn't matter. Yes its balanced this way but it isnt fun.

Black Pöwer1 votes

"You scale incredibly well with items, to the point where you are encouraged to buy only one defensive item." ~ THISS!! I was playing a game the other day and someone tried calling me out for building randuins as a defense item, against a full ad team instead of "guardian angel". I'd rather be able to live through a team fight, than to die, revive and be killed again.

Lt Cuddles1 votes

Yaaaas...

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

I will agree with most of this but ESPECIALLY that last line. ADC is extremely rng dependent right now and is the main reason I pretty much only play Kallista, Draven, and Ez because in a meta where your supports will typically be roaming you will be bot or against their ADC for a decent amount of time after IE at which both of you can easily kill the other with sheer luck of who gets more crits? This carries on for most of the game since ADCS will probably only get 40-65% crit based on build and can win fights by being very lucky and get 4 crits in a row with IE plus zeal or something. I really like what they did with Ashe so that yeah she has access to all the critical items but isn't relying on rolling dice for big dick dps. Adcs are apparently the "sustained" damage dealer but has literally random spikes of damage that are out of your control. Yes you can do sustained high damage if you praised RNJesus but you could have sustained low damage for not even if you have over 50% critical and being unlucky. Playing ADC is not fun if you are crit based because you feel punished with literal bad luck and playing against it feels worse when they critical you multiple times with hardly any crit. I have been a whole PD over another adc and lost an auto fight with them for them critting more times than me with just an infinity edge. That should not EVER happen.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

what adc needs is item 3150 and adcs would have a better chance at living

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

These changes are addressing at least the item concerns, and champions like Kindred help you protect the team.

Silents4291 votes

Wow thanks for pointing out exactly what everyone has been aware of for awhile now.

Lord Boltrix1 votes

Mordekaiser

"I shall bring great suffering."

Yes you will Morde, yes you will."

SnipingwithStyle1 votes

Its all about good team fight positioning and having a team that isn't brain dead that knows how to peel and if you can kite then you should be able to survive unless a Zed or aRengar jumps at you and you don't get peel.

Swaid1 votes

♪ I will play any role on Earth, yes, I would play any role on Earth! I would play any role on Earth...But I won't play ADC. ♫

Kat Head1 votes

When you wield the most power, you should also wield the greatest weaknesses.

ADCs have a player dedicated to there personal safety, this dude is there to do nothing else but keep you safe and help you grow. The people complaining in this thread should try playing the assassin role attempting to get through a entire team of people who want nothing but to see you dead. If you make it to the back line, there awaits a support with multiple crowd control abilities in there kit. All of this time a Adc has skillfully right clicked you and you are taking 1k auto attacks.

I am very fearful this game is going to return to the adc top, mid, jungle, support and adc meta again. I will agree that playing bot lane is not fun, however it is the lane phase that I find unfun. Everyone is so agro in bot lane and I prefer to carefully choose when to fight when I am weak. Later in the game playing adc is easy, right click stuff and do not be a wimp. Someone is there to protect you (many times unwillingly), it is there main job.

T RexHasTinyArms1 votes

It looks like it may get a whole lot worse/better for ADC mains this coming season. Item changes and buffed up offense masteris for AS builds plus nerfs to tanks is going to make one of two things true: A) ADC gets stronger, tanks get weaker/less important, so assassin mid/jg becomes more prevalent bc the game becomes about who can kill the ADC first in order to win team fights, B) the new defense mastery that lets you redirect damage to the tank is consistent enough that you can always use it to focus protection on the ADC, so kite/poke/disengage becomes stupid strong bc you have to kill a tank to damage the ADC while a buffed ADC damages everything but the tank/adc on your team, and the only other option is to just poke the enemy and not let them engage so when you do fight the tank is too low to soak all the damage put on the ADC while your tank is high HP so the enemy can't kill ADC until tank is down.

Basically if marksmen are buffed largely by the new item options and new mastery trees, then you are likely to either become the primary target for 2-3 assassin/fighter champs, or really team dependent bc ADC becomes immune to damage until the tank is at 15% HP, so if you don't have a tank HP advantage the fight will be a pain. In b4 jax/tryn top split push w/ lulu mid, janna bot, fat tank jg, and an immune ADC while a tank has massive shields and HP, ADC kills mid/top/support/jg that isn't tanking for the ADC w/ new mastery, and the split pusher takes 2-3 towers top/bot. Especially at 12-15 min where split just takes the new buff and support promotes a cannon minion for the split lane...... lol, baron minions and jax/tryn eat towers while promote cannon minion tanks.

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