The Line Between Heal and Barrier is Flawed

Darkslayer85·10/31/2016, 1:19:05 PM·35 votes·4,142 views

Heal: 90-345 to yourself AND an allied champion. This is applied in the form of a heal, which means the health lingers even after the spell is used. Also applys 30% MS for 2 seconds. Barrier: 115-445 to JUST YOURSELF, and it only lasts for two seconds.

Who sees a problem with this?

The difference between the two values is only 25-100. That's ONE autoattack.

Differentiate between the spells and increase Barrier's value to 340-925 for ONE second.

It also means mages don't need to rush Zhonyas first item into assassins.

https://i.imgflip.com/1da4ox.jpg

63 Comments

Treepac 3theResQ10/31/2016, 5:07:28 PM16 votes

Unsure if this has been said already, but it should be noted, that 'Barrier' has a lower cooldown than 'Heal'; 3 minutes vs 4 minutes, and that the strength of the shield cannot be mitigated, whereas 'Heal' can be weakened with the application of grievous wounds.

With all that said, exhaust does the most work at every stage of the game, especially during the later stages of the game; where, a single auto attack or damage dealing ability from a carry champion will deal atleast double the worth of the heal/shield.

JDB8eoX8x010/31/2016, 5:38:12 PM10 votes

summoner 7 < summoner 14 < summoner 21

Rebonack10/31/2016, 3:36:26 PM9 votes

I still think Barrier and Cleanse should be combined into one spell. Instances where you're wanting to block focus and remove CC overlap pretty well.

Heal gets a two person mini-ghost and Barrier gets nothing? Okay.

While we're at it, Flash should be split into two Summoners. One for poofing you a moderate distance instantly (but can't traverse walls) and one for traversing walls ala Magical Journey for one person.

Spoofghoul10/31/2016, 3:04:51 PM3 votes

between item 3715 summoner 3 summoner 7

summoner 21 is useless

reducing damage by 20% is already stronger then the stupid barrier unless you buy a crap ton of resistances in which case you likely do not need barrier anyway

now if you want to escape an assassin or mage from destroying you, both heal and exhaust are better, drop their damage output so you don't die and slow them to get away, or heal yourself so you do not die and get a speed boost to get away

Stardew Valley10/31/2016, 2:25:04 PM2 votes

increase Barrier's value to 340-925 for ONE second.

I think 925 is too much. And so is 340 at such a low level. I know you increased it by that much at the cost of 1 less second. Maybe something like 250-610 while keeping it at TWO seconds would be more appropriate. I get that you may want these changes kind of as a counter to burst damagers, but reducing it by just a second is actually quite vital. You can make the mistake of activating it too soon and the enemy can just wait for that 1 second to use all his damage abilities. Keeping it at 2 seconds is important because your enemy would have to make a decision: to wait 2 long seconds to use all his abilities or use them as soon as he can to break down your barrier, causing the player to panic. This will allow you to use your abilities on him or escape. Additionally, if it's reduced by 1 second, it will be less useful to dps such as ignite and poison.

Randomonium10/31/2016, 8:40:40 PM1 votes

If you're going up against an assassin why not take exhaust? 40% reduced damage is far superior to any shield or healing.

DeynaTaggerung10/31/2016, 10:10:32 PM1 votes

Trick question, you take exhaust unless you're facing leblanc and maybe even then.

SwordOfWar11/1/2016, 12:14:05 AM1 votes

If you choose insight and lucidity boots you could probably have a barrier for like, every fight.

doiminat0r360011/1/2016, 1:02:34 AM1 votes

They need to make it where barrier lets the caster ignore % of damage just to differentiate the two a bit more.

They're really similar.

Danjeng11/1/2016, 1:43:22 AM1 votes

340 hit points is too extreme at level 1. By level 6, your proposed barrier blocks 535 damage for 1 second. This is enough to completely counter Garen's ultimate or Veigar's.

Hotaru is Waifu11/1/2016, 2:48:06 AM1 votes

i think summoner 21 should make your mr go higher more counter play for nukes like this Annie but it would most likely be nerfed somewhere else maybe cd?

Doseqis11/1/2016, 4:57:33 AM1 votes

Inb4 Nunu ults and barrier completely negates it, seriously as much as people want barrier to be better it runs the risk of completely negating certain champions and makes the game so much less fun for both sides, heal is ok because it has counterplay through ignite and things like that but barrier can be just as dumb as maw sometimes.

rtbf7610927111/1/2016, 7:28:04 AM1 votes

Far too many mages can just get item 3165 and then your heal is weakened to 54 - 207, which is HALF of barrier. Plus barrier has a shorter cooldown

I agree barrier is worse than ghost for an additional "don't die" summoner, but it is still better than heal (for mid lane at least). That being said the numbers you have suggested are ridiculously high, and decreasing the timer I don't like either because it makes it too hit/miss as to how much damage is actually absorbed. 1 second is enough for an entire nuke ult, but so completely useless against even half ass sustained damage because it will absorb 1 auto then be gone with 800 wasted

The numbers are so outlandishly high it makes me wonder how this thread is front page tbh

Serika Zero11/1/2016, 1:09:42 PM1 votes

summoner 3 40% less dmg, 10 less MR/Armor, 30% slow for 2.5 seconds Is better then Heal or Barrier in terms of surviving an assassin.

The reason why barrier can be useful: long range damage (think jayce/lux/vel'coz) The reason why heal can be useful: recovers hp of 2 targets and gives more MS which can be used to dodge skill shots, run away or chase enemy. The reason why exhaust can be useful: in close range, one of the biggest cockblockers

Draqone10/31/2016, 1:24:30 PM1 votes

Agreed. Especially now with the assassin rework they should change barrier.

I'd actually go as far as say they should have barrier make you invulnerable for 1 second.

Asura Gonza11/1/2016, 5:21:53 PM1 votes

I approve the idea of barrier and cleance being merged into one spell.

it would be VERY useful against hard cc heave teams.

Coupled that with QSS, Zonya, Michaels and Banshees...and you have some good options to prevent getting snared and nuked.

Avienal10/31/2016, 1:31:05 PM1 votes

{quoted}

Heal: 90-345 to yourself AND an allied champion. This is applied in the form of a heal, which means the health lingers even after the spell is used. Also applys 30% MS for 2 seconds. Barrier: 115-445 to JUST YOURSELF, and it only lasts for two seconds.

Who sees a problem with this?

The difference between the two values is only 25-100. That's ONE autoattack.

Differentiate between the spells and increase Barrier's value to 340-925 for ONE second.

Pretty much alot of summoner spells are broken as it is:

Practically no one grabs: summoner 13 or because no one considers having the ability to greatly reduce disables duration for a whole 3 seconds to ruin a cluster fk of CC chains and usually mana issues are 'resolved' after a first item buy or does not exist at all whether its champions who have retardedly low mana costs or none at all. With only Clarity seems to find barely any use on ARAM which is still loaded with ARAM Account abuse or people just grabbing snowball instead for the screw around moments.

summoner 4 still dominates pick priority too much that i feel like on top of the mastery changes for season 7, some changes should of been included on summoner spells to finally put the spell in its place, we are already loaded with too many champions who can ez'mode yolo wall jump, can use Flash for a second wall jump and considering a non mandatory mechanic a necessary thing for everyone to learn (abusing flash for wall jumping namely) is the same as everyone should exploit one particular 'gimmick' just because the developers did not even give a care how game breaking such a gimmick was.

As they said for Masteries, they should aim towards where players pick the customization for the choices the champions they want to play as and how they want to play them. Not because such selections is not the worst selections they could pick.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Basically the best way they can greatly force that auto grab rate down is make it so Flash can't be used for jumping over walls. Without ruining it in general, just make it more focused as a gap closer/escape not a EZ way to get out of a enemy base, jump into baron/dragon pit or out of it or just plain save them from having 3 people chasing them and they just have to wall jump to make the enemy team take several seconds going the long way around just to chase you.

Psi2110/31/2016, 5:23:28 PM1 votes

God forbidden Riot balancing team actually thinks this through and provides a healthier Shielding spell to rival the all mighty GOD MUST NEED SUMMONER SPELL - FLASH

All hail flash! Broken since beta! *TM

Meep Man10/31/2016, 7:13:27 PM1 votes

I think picking Barrier is kind of a joke now that Courage of the Colossus is going to exist

DrugsForRobots10/31/2016, 8:35:41 PM1 votes

Step 1:

Remove the MS from summoner 7 .

Step 2:

summoner 21 : Shields your champion for [115-445] damage, being twice as effective against projectiles.

summoner 1 : Instantly removes all CC and disables, grants 45% tenacity and MS that decays over 3 seconds.

summoner 6 : Grants your champion bonus MS for 5 seconds, causing them to become invisible and intangible as well after 2.5s.

For a total of 2.5s of invisibility.

The bluish 'ghosting' FX are still visible, but are always ~1.5s behind your current location.

This is a tell-tale sign, a visual clue that perceptive or undistracted players can pick up on.

Step 3:

Profit? Hooray for SS diversity!