"Pantheon has talon level damage" is a lie. Pantheon needs changes

Ćold As Ice·8/19/2019, 6:33:41 AM·5 votes·3,616 views

While in the base stats it seems that yes indeeed pantheon has better skcaling in his Q if empwoered and his E does damage, if we look at the Talon autoattack reset of 3 autos, with the crit, and especially the difference in damamge when we consider the passive their damage in lane seems about equal. The differences?

One: Talon has much lower execution time of optimal damage combo, and lower cooldown of base abilities, making this higher scaling an actual burst.

Two: The ultimate: Talon's ultimate when it converges on one target does a shitload of damage and actually scales with AD, while new Pantheon's AD scalings optimally add up TO ABOUT THE AD SCALING OF KATARINA'S ULTIMATE ALONE

So now, post 6 Talon does way more damage, and has way lower time to execute his whole combo.

Pantheon is not an assassin, stop pretending he would be a good assassin. He has no burst, and has less reliable way to get onto adc's than evelynn (Which if she gets on an adc late game she can delete in less than a second)

As for bruiser pantheon.... Most bruisers scale well with total AD or base AD scalings, while pantheon has no base AD scaling, and the best items for him actually would make him viable if he had, total or base ad scalings...

I think repurposing Pantrheon tom a full on bruiser with total AD scalings instead of bonus AD scalings and improving his synergy with bruiser items like Steraks might be the way to go, because he falls off so hard by 25 minutes right now, and his scalings shoehorn you into full AD builds to have some damage, but that due to your lack of mobility makes you literally worse than dealing with being engaged on than Xayah.

And if you do build bruiser? You are below average and your damage really only shines if you get the perfect oppotunity to get an execute but that requires someone to do all your job, and the squishy wouldve been more easily killed if you picked camille.

ANother issue with pantheon: He cannot outbully other lane bullies, and even they outscale him pretty quickly (if someone like renekton gets to level 6 if you ahevnt lost tilll now, you would now for sure lose), despite lane bullies similar to him are supposed to fall off, and the lanes he DOES get to bullly, have easier time dealing with him than other laners and can really survive without feeding you too much, and outscale him fast. (Vlad simply just sustains till he gets an itwem and then just walks up to you and murders you. You cannot threaten him if he has pool, he would outpoke you eventually, even kayle can play safe and lsoe some farm, but the moment sher hits level 11 its game over for you, and kayle can eaisly just deny you damage. After your W ends she can Q slow you and W instantly, and you literally cannot catchup to her to finish your trade with empowered Q, before she eventually whacks you again with her E, and gets a klepto potion that sustains her back to full hp.)

The lanes he is supposed to bully can survive and deal with him, and he just loses to other bullies, and not to emntion what tanks like Mundo or poppy and juggernauts like garen deal to him. Poppy and Garen can straight up crush pantheon and should be instabanned if you ever wanna play that hero.

So this is it. I think pantheon should eb buffed, and I suggest he gets shifted to more into a playable bruiser. ALso some of his Cooldowns arre way too high

EDIT: Has anyone noticed he is the only bruiser lane bully with absolutely no sustain, and one of the 2 bruisers with no in built sustain, while the other is literally a hyper carry.

39 Comments

Ralanr8/19/2019, 6:41:50 PM3 votes

I think turning his scalings to base from bonus AD is a good call. Pantheon can't function like an assassin as he has no real escapes (something that many divers have more than he does) and because his W is so easy to peel off, he has no way to get onto a carry in a teamfight. This usually leads to Pantheon getting blown up super quickly if he's built like an assassin, whereas assassins like Talon or Zed (though Talon is generally easier to catch) have better escape tools.

Allowing Pantheon to get more out of building Bruiser can let him better fufill a frontline role and be the diver he's supposed to be. His builds arguably should be closer to champions like Camille Vi and LeeSin, but all three of these have some form of in built defense mechanics in their kit that they get from attacking or on a reasonable cooldown (Vi and Camille have shields from attacking (I think Vi does anyway) and Lee has a shield with his dash, and Lee dashes a lot). Pantheon meanwhile only has his new E, which while powerful, is on a long cooldown (though I wouldn't ask to buff him there).

The closest champion to Pantheon's actual build is Jayce, a champion that builds no sustain and packs quite a few lethality items. This is because Jayce rarely ever goes into melee unless it's for his combo (and while in melee he has ways to peel himself). Jayce also doesn't have sustain, but he can get away with building DD, whereas Pantheon I feel can't risk getting DD because he blows up too quickly. It should be a good item on him, but he rarely gets it.

Pantheon's own lack of escapes imo is also a key reason why he falls off. Pantheon's split power is decent, but when two to three enemy champions meet his push he pretty much has to outrun them or all in and hopefully take someone with him. Now, forcing a bunch of people to answer your push is good, but more durable champions can do the same and last longer, or more mobile champions can do the same and live, preventing any real gain on for the enemy team.

Assassin Pantheon is at best a 1 for 1 champion late game, but there are better options for that. Hell, I think Renekton is the best lane bully choice for scaling because of his lockdown, letting him act as a psuedo tank late game by jumping in, stunning, and jumping out with enough durability to survive.

Ninjas Flossing8/19/2019, 6:50:10 AM2 votes

new panth is fine. he does enough early damage to roam and make all the late game carries snowball. i know this for fact since im not a top main and panth IS ALWAYS IN MY LANE!

Fear the Kayn8/19/2019, 6:55:25 PM1 votes

His ult is bordering on completely useless because it takes 5 seconds for him to jump, and his E definitely should do more damage.

FioraWillCarry8/19/2019, 10:49:41 PM1 votes

When Kayle can hard win lane vs any champion before level 6, you know that champ is weak as fuck. New Panth is garbage. Most garbage rework I have ever seen. I'd rather be able to play as the Red Buff over this new Pantheon.

AlienPrimate8/20/2019, 4:09:27 AM1 votes

After playing against him 3 times in top lane, I think they need to nerf his shield to shift power elsewhere. His shield is actually overbearing in a lot of matchups and I don't think Pantheon players would be opposed to it being nerfed in favor of more damage on his Q.

space caose8/20/2019, 9:04:42 AM1 votes

Pantheon is dead champ at this point, at least with old panth you could pretty much one shot lot of people if managed to get ahead. With new panth i haven't been able to doing anything, while ahead at least a couple kills. Being forced to go bruiser is no fun, and i'd rather he go back to being an assassin. Also the ult needs a change as well its 2 slow and very easly dodged. Panth atm is like picking galio pointless as fuck because you will get out traded by every other champ in that match up.