What do junglers have against top lane that they'll blatantly ignore it to where it loses games?

Popperofski·9/4/2018, 6:46:36 AM·5 votes·5,150 views

Title.

I've been playing more top because I can't just one trick jungle, and I've noticed that over a few weeks, almost a month, and I've noticed.... my allies hate top laners. They just flat out ignore the lane. While the enemy junglers don't. In fact, it mostly gets camped.

I've tracked about 55 games in the past month, give or take a week or two and a higher number, and it's actually phenomenal how little I get a gank, or repeated ganks if it works out one time. MAYBE 10% of the 55 ever show a jungler whiffing my side of the map beyond blue buff. 5-8 games? AT most? Really?

Now, here's the way we can put this on a curve so it doesn't sound utterly false:

-The jungler has to actually be in combat with the opposing laner while I'm in lane. Typical -There doesn't have to be a kill, but, lane pressure or enemy summoners should get used. Lane pressure can be defined as aid to the lane to make the opponent wary of engaging or playing aggressive. Blowing a summoner or chunking their HP are two examples any ELO can get behind here, however, you can make more subtle pressure plays using countervision and as such, that's more of a grey area. For now we leave it to just the first two.

  • They should be at least noting "hey, rift herald sounds good at some point, I'll try topside gank to getting rift if the other lanes hold it down" in some way, because, at least to a majority of people, rift is a great way to snowball a lead, or get the top lane off the island and into the fray. (the third one is mostly a requirement but doing rift can also be distracting if the drakes are RNG'd in favor of prioritizing those)

Most of MY picks, I try to at least offer some gank assist. Some better than others at it, but nonetheless, SOMETHING to be like "hey, to make your job easier, here's THIS" so ganking's easier, because as we know, it's a carry jungler meta right now, and carry junglers mostly lack CC to initiate, and blowing their only gap closer can put them in a bad spot.

Darius Galio Gnar Nasus Maokai Trundle Shen Sion Renekton Gragas are my usual top laners (some more frequent than others).

While some of these champs can really do fine by themselves, ganks help. Even these champs who most of you guys hate, need a jungler's help if they lose. The whole "junglers aren't there to win lanes for you" argument is bullshit. I main jungle. I turn shit around, or, if I'm trying to really get, let's say, bot lane or mid lane ahead, that gives either of them free reign to roam topside and then rotate the top laner to bot to catch up on CS, or, gank. There is that grey area where they lose the lane for themselves, and yeah, I'm not saying gank an int feeder, but I am saying, before you leave them out to dry, don't just assume that shit.

It's great that most of those champs, are bruisers, some tanks, and a couple juggernauts. A lot of bitching has gone on about picks like those, and since I'm in the majority of the playerbase in elo (at least on other accounts), it's most likely they follow the bandwagon of hating top lane fighters. That begs a question - wouldn't you want this "OP" champ to win? so why don't they get ganks when I'm playing them?

Do people still think top laners don't make an impact? Or do they really not value the rift herald, or their (probably) only tank being a part of the game sooner than the other person's (again, maybe) tank? Even if it's someone like Camille Irelia or Aatrox or Jax who is your top laner (again, these people are REALLY complained about. Especially jax. I don't even like jax's on my own team tbh), don't you think "hum, maybe I should give them the attention that I give them when I rage about them stomping my own games."

This all sounds like some hashinshin level bullshin (haHAA) but it's something I'm experiencing on both ends and I think, a shift in dynamic of lane priority will actually fucking fix a lot of the problems of playing the lane and the apathy towards it by high elo streamers (potential or famous)

tl;dr stop fucking ignoring top lane for fucks sake

28 Comments

Daddy Ants9/4/2018, 7:59:51 AM8 votes

Because most of the top laners I get put with end up going 0/3 within the first 5-10 minutes because they push like a bunch of apes.

Zetto9/4/2018, 4:19:37 PM5 votes

Junglers tend to ignore top lane due to the fact that: 1: Top has less carry potential than mid/bot 2: bot lane generally serves as a better source of gold due to the fact that there are 2 champions to kill instead of 1 3: the only objective on topside is Rift herald, which isn't a concern for the first 10 minutes of the game, and is soloable by most junglers. Generally when it comes to rift herald it's more useful to have your laner stay in lane to try and keep the enemy top in lane.

As a jungler top is really only useful as a more low-risk/low-reward source of gold, tbh.

Harrowïng9/4/2018, 7:13:16 AM3 votes

That just happens in all ranks. Most top lanes get the Dyrus treatment. Which is that their own team will ignore them while the enemy team will camp them. Happens every time. What's worse is that your jungler is more than likely camping the lane that's going 2/10 and down 80 cs and feeding off his own kills. Best thing I do when I play top is just imagine that it's the Snowdown Showdown. Top lane doesn't exist to the team and therefore the team doesn't exist to top lane. If the enemy jungler is camping you anyway, 9 times out of 10 it's because the rest of your team is already losing and you just aren't losing enough.

Bademeister9/4/2018, 3:18:13 PM3 votes

You talk about 12 top laners being your "usual picks" - that tells me (1) you lose your lane because you are not familiar enough with the respective matchups, and (2) you don't position your lane in a way that your jungler CAN gank you.

It has nothing to do with junglers, it is exclusively you.

Daddy Ants9/5/2018, 9:40:37 AM3 votes

Let's be honest now....

Top Laner's don't decide Top Lane....

Junglers do.

If you have something like Darius Camille Fiora Irelia Kayle Quinn Jax Gangplank Tryndamere Yasuo as your top laner, ganking them early and getting the lane ahead can prove very beneficial for your team.

Except for Darius and Quinn, All these champions scale extremely well with items.

Getting Tanks like DrMundo Maokai Malphite Poppy Ornn ahead just doesn't seem worth the effort to me.

Tanks can just stonewall the lane.

I'm not saying you shouldn't gank for a Tank but getting carry top laners ahead especially scaling ones like Fiora, Camille, Kayle and Tryndamere isn't a bad thing.

I've early ganked for champions like Tryndamere Darius in the past, got them first blood and they proceeded to take over the game.

LTK KoRo9/4/2018, 12:06:45 PM2 votes

It's pretty easy. Junglers are playing to teams win conditions. And most of the win conditions are on bot or mid currently. There aren't any reliable carries on top. Who would you prefer to have as a fed carry in your team: Jayce, Orianna or Tristana?

Top gets ignored because top as itself doesn't have a big carry threat, and most of top carries like Camille or Jax are manageable in teamfights. I'll always prefer to have a fed Kai'sa in my team than any top lane carry.

ozzzz6669/5/2018, 10:15:59 AM2 votes

Things that will make me ignore toplane:

  1. Refusing to leash if I need it.

  2. Not standing with me pre-minion spawn to watch for the invade.

  3. Talking Smack in Champ select.

  4. Constantly pushing your laner into their tower.

The biggest is #4. If you are pushing the lane and your laner is under their tower every time I am clearing topside camps, then yeah, I'm probably not diving tower for it because I can't trust some random toplaner to follow up when I dive. This sounds like what you may be doing, since you say that you get ganked but your jg doesn't gank for you. Are you pushing the lane? The enemy jg sees you over extended and thinks to themselves "Hey, look! Free Kill!". Meanwhile your jg looks and says to himself "I'll probably die under tower if I gank because my toplaner will just back off when he sees me go under tower, or might be an idiot and just back in the bush." It happens to me about 60% of the time. Then if they do and I die under tower, they spam ping me and blame me all game. No thanks.

Need Gold 4 Tent9/5/2018, 9:52:31 AM2 votes

As a Yi main, I'm not ganking an Ahri/Kassandin lane post 6 if you happen to be mid Ez or some cc-less laner. It's literally a waste of time that I could be using to counterjungle or farm for my items. I'm sure same goes for certain top laners, if you're a bit behind, I'm also not touching an Illaoi/Darius lane to feed them a double kill/double buff.

iPooUnicorns9/4/2018, 12:57:37 PM2 votes

Good junglers don't help losing lanes alone. Instead they should only gank losing lanes with additional teammates, and only if the enemy team can't respond.

Xaphlough9/7/2018, 1:17:36 PM1 votes

The worst part about it is that all the jg has to do is show up to the lane in order to impact it. Even if they deal zero damage, merely showing up shows that they are paying attention to that side of the map. That applies pressure and forces the enemy laner to at least consider whether or not a gank is coming. Just show up, it's not that hard.

That being said, perhaps this thread would be more constructive if it was focused on ways to bait your own jg to helping you, rather than focusing on the reasons they have to not show up. I think we all know that using control wards or pulling your opponent away from their tower entices ganks, but are there hidden op ways to get your jg to show up?

I don't have as much xp as jg, but maybe those of you with more xp can help out by sharing the things that make you think "oh, I should definitely camp top lane" or even "wow top looks like an easy gank, I gotta get up there".

ArchangelAlaska9/4/2018, 10:18:38 AM1 votes

Mhm... i get your point. A jungler should not always abandon the same lane, but you also have to see that a jungler should decide at the beginning which lanes he support and which of them are on their own. If he ganks all 3 lanes constantly, he is going to lose to the enemy jungler in gold and xp even with a big amount of kills. Your champs are mostly tanks... and tbh you are not to be expected to win trades against splitpush fighters like Fiora, Camille or Jax. You should just focus on getting cs and xp in lane. Your real use for the team is in Teamfights, to protect allies and cc enemies. When i would jungle in your games, i would probably also ignore your lane and focus on the mid or botlane. As long you get xp and gold, build a little bit tanky. You will be of use for the team. In the current meta there are assassins in the midlane and adcs on botlane. If they fall to much behind there is no way in winning the game through teamfights, but splitpush is also not an option, cause toplane tanks dont split. There are some tanks who can solo carry if they snowball enough like Mundo... still i would always prefer a talon or zed to carry the game through roams instead of an tank running the enemy down. I can see that it is frustrating to get sit by the enemy and your jungler just let you die or at least lose the lane on your lone island, but as long your jungler has impact on another lane you just need to be patient and passive... as boring it is. I hope you can see my point here... and even if you probaly dont like it (im pretty sure you dont, cause i wouldnt either)

Paintchip9/7/2018, 11:19:48 AM1 votes

{quoted}

Title.

I've been playing more top because I can't just one trick jungle, and I've noticed that over a few weeks, almost a month, and I've noticed.... my allies hate top laners. They just flat out ignore the lane. While the enemy junglers don't. In fact, it mostly gets camped.

I've tracked about 55 games in the past month, give or take a week or two and a higher number, and it's actually phenomenal how little I get a gank, or repeated ganks if it works out one time. MAYBE 10% of the 55 ever show a jungler whiffing my side of the map beyond blue buff. 5-8 games? AT most? Really?

Now, here's the way we can put this on a curve so it doesn't sound utterly false:

-The jungler has to actually be in combat with the opposing laner while I'm in lane. Typical -There doesn't have to be a kill, but, lane pressure or enemy summoners should get used. Lane pressure can be defined as aid to the lane to make the opponent wary of engaging or playing aggressive. Blowing a summoner or chunking their HP are two examples any ELO can get behind here, however, you can make more subtle pressure plays using countervision and as such, that's more of a grey area. For now we leave it to just the first two.

  • They should be at least noting "hey, rift herald sounds good at some point, I'll try topside gank to getting rift if the other lanes hold it down" in some way, because, at least to a majority of people, rift is a great way to snowball a lead, or get the top lane off the island and into the fray. (the third one is mostly a requirement but doing rift can also be distracting if the drakes are RNG'd in favor of prioritizing those)

Most of MY picks, I try to at least offer some gank assist. Some better than others at it, but nonetheless, SOMETHING to be like "hey, to make your job easier, here's THIS" so ganking's easier, because as we know, it's a carry jungler meta right now, and carry junglers mostly lack CC to initiate, and blowing their only gap closer can put them in a bad spot.

Darius Galio Gnar Nasus Maokai Trundle Shen Sion Renekton Gragas are my usual top laners (some more frequent than others).

While some of these champs can really do fine by themselves, ganks help. Even these champs who most of you guys hate, need a jungler's help if they lose. The whole "junglers aren't there to win lanes for you" argument is bullshit. I main jungle. I turn shit around, or, if I'm trying to really get, let's say, bot lane or mid lane ahead, that gives either of them free reign to roam topside and then rotate the top laner to bot to catch up on CS, or, gank. There is that grey area where they lose the lane for themselves, and yeah, I'm not saying gank an int feeder, but I am saying, before you leave them out to dry, don't just assume that shit.

It's great that most of those champs, are bruisers, some tanks, and a couple juggernauts. A lot of bitching has gone on about picks like those, and since I'm in the majority of the playerbase in elo (at least on other accounts), it's most likely they follow the bandwagon of hating top lane fighters. That begs a question - wouldn't you want this "OP" champ to win? so why don't they get ganks when I'm playing them?

Do people still think top laners don't make an impact? Or do they really not value the rift herald, or their (probably) only tank being a part of the game sooner than the other person's (again, maybe) tank? Even if it's someone like Camille Irelia or Aatrox or Jax who is your top laner (again, these people are REALLY complained about. Especially jax. I don't even like jax's on my own team tbh), don't you think "hum, maybe I should give them the attention that I give them when I rage about them stomping my own games."

This all sounds like some hashinshin level bullshin (haHAA) but it's something I'm experiencing on both ends and I think, a shift in dynamic of lane priority will actually fucking fix a lot of the problems of playing the lane and the apathy towards it by high elo streamers (potential or famous)

tl;dr stop fucking ignoring top lane for fucks sake

Weird, I too switched from jg to playing mid/top. I’ve noticed alot of the jgs I get stuck with don’t even gank mid (the lane they crossover all the time. I’ve also noticed it is better to not ask for help, otherwise they ignore you to try and tilt you for a report.

Demon King Maou9/4/2018, 6:53:21 AM1 votes

I always get ignored toplane you just need to adjust your playstyle. I learned to freeze lane because i was constantly ganked and never received help so now i just freeze to where enemy jungler has to put excessive effort into ganks. As for why people ignore it? Most junglers see toplane is a "Unskilled" or "Crybaby" role so they focus Adc and support (2 players) both of which have high carry potential if fed.

Generally i ignore toplane if they ping spam or harass in chat for ganks because it shows they easily tilt and or do not possess the skill required to play competently (Throws are easy with them)