Kassadin "needs to pay respect to the enemy's tank line" -Riot, patch 5.4

Misys·3/26/2015, 5:38:05 AM·30 votes·3,635 views

Sooooo, here's my rant on Kassadin.

PATCH NOTES (5.4): Kassadin ult range reduced from 700 to 450

MEANWHILE: Zed ult range: 625 Not only does Zed have a 625, combined with living shadow (550), he can get past your front line at a range of 1175. Not only that, but he has an instant escape. Like literally, he pushes R, and he's safe. Yup, please respect the front line Kassadin, while the real men go from one and a half of your ults.

Nidalee pounce on hunted targets: 750 Not gonna go into much detail on some of these, since there's enough on Nidalee, just pointing out all of the ranges of jumps in the game.

Talon cutthroat: 700 Honestly one of the most balanced assassins in the game, in my opinion, talon's cutthroat is pretty fair to me. In order to get past the enemy front line, you have to stand right in front of it first. Not only that, but he does not have an escape afterwards, leaving him to the mercy of the enemy team.

XinZhao audacious charge: 600 600 range isn't that bad, just listing ranges.

Katarina shunpo: 700 (resets on kill/assist) This is probably the biggest fucking insult to Kassadin to ever exist. Katarina beats Kassadin in almost every way now (not in a 1v1, he still counters Kat, but Kat brings more to the team). Katarina essentailly has the same mobility as Kassadin, with the exception that she can't jump over walls to get around the map faster. Katarina can run away with the same tactics as Kassadin, provided that she has a ward, which is not hard to come by. Not only that, but in an actual teamfight, her mobility far exceeds Kassadin's with her passive. She also does not have to be "smart" with her shunpo's as she's a resourceless champion. Not only that, but if she messes up one of her shunpos, she doesn't even get punished that hard. Her shunpo has a 6 second cooldown at level 5, making it easy to recover after a mistake.

Let's calculate damage now. Assuming both champions are level 18 and have 500 AP against a 0 MR enemy, here are the damage statistics: Katarina: Bouncing Blades damage: 160 + 225 (dagger) + 75 + 75 (proc) = 535 damage Sinister Steel: 180 + 125 = 305 Shunpo: 160 + 200: 360 Death Lotus (1 second, out of 2.5): (75 + 125) x 4 = 800 Total Damage: 2000 (PLUS 1200 PER KILL, FROM RESETS) Kassadin Null Sphere: 170+350 = 520 Nether Blade: 140 + 300 = 440 Force Pulse: 180 + 350 = 530 Rift Walk (3100 mana, with tear + roa, assuming he uses it three times in a teamfight): 120 + 62 + 120 + 62 + 60 + 31 + 120 + 62 + 60 + 31 + 60 + 31 = 819 Total Damage: 2309 (This is assuming he builds tear and roa, and uses every rift for damage. I usually don't build tear, and some people build tear, without building roa.)

Katarina - balanced, since she can be countered with hard cc. Kassadin - op, since he ignores the front line.

Leblanc distortion range: 600 (x2 for a total of 1200...) This is like kat, but with higher initial burst damage, without the kill resets. Not going into detail, since everything said about kat pertains here.

Akali shadow dance: 700 Exactly the same as kat, since she gets more ult stacks for every kill/reset.

Fizz playful/trickster: 400 each (x2 for a total of 800) KASSADIN - OP BECAUSE HE IGNORES THE FRONT LINE AT 700 RANGE FIZZ - NOT OP, BECAUSE HE CAN GO UNTARGETABLE FROM 800 RANGE

because logic.

Fiora Lunge: 600 See Xin Zhao.

Khazix evolved leap: 900 (resets on kill/assist) Kha is a little underpowered if you ask me, but his e defies Rito logics.

Tristana rocket jump: 900 (resets on kill/assist) See Kha, but balanced.

Vi assault and battery: 800 See Fizz. She can't be disabled, except by killing her. Most Vi players usually build tanky, so if she ults at full heath, not much you can do.

MonkeyKing nimbus strike: 625 See Xin.

Warwick infinite duress: 700 Ermmmm, so point and click 700 instant blink plus cc? Hm. Seems fair, when you compare it to the Kassadin riftop.

Pre nerf Kassadin already had a terrible win rate of 45%. Post nerf Kassadin dropped him down to a whopping 35%. That was the lowest in the game. He's slowly come back since, dangling at around 42%, if you can call that a come back. I usually am on Riot's side with most balance changes, but this is the first stupid retarded idiotic absurd, ahem, balance change that I vehemently oppose (I've been playing for a year).

Here are some changes I propose, since Riot is obviously having some trouble with one of my favorite champions

Make his ult range scale with his level. This is by far the best suggestion I've seen browsing the forums. Not only would it preserve his weak early game, it would allow him to regain his former glory of a 45% winrate.

Reduce his stack resets, and lower his ult cooldown at levels 6 and 11. Cooldown: 6/4/2 --> 4/3/2 This would give him a more "rushed" feel, where he is designed as a champion to literally be everywhere at the same time.

Rework his kit into a top lane fighter mage. Lower all of his cooldowns, and reduce their damage. Make his ult not do damage, and lower its mana cost again, and make the maximum number of stacks five instead of four. This would force him to use his ult for utility, and not damage. It would allow him to seem to be in multiple parts of a team fight at once, allowing him to help his teammates as a "firefighter", giving help to those who need it. He would need a better peel ability, such as a knockup, to protect his teamates (especially his adc).

Rework his ult to be similar to Ahri's ult, with a twist. When he ults, give him four stacks to use, which have a 100 second cooldown after 15 seconds. Lower the individual riftwalks to have a 2-4 second cooldown. Add a new effect: "Kassadin's walks through the rift leave infected areas on the ground, trapping anyone who steps on them, rooting them for 1/1.5/2 seconds." This would be an awesome change to his ult. It maintains his identity of a mobile assassin, while giving him a small amount of cc, in order to allow him to chase like he did before

Also, for those that are curious, last season I was a silver II jungle Shaco main, but I usually played Kassadin mid lane when I didn't get/feel like playing jungle. This season I am a Fiddlesticks jungle main, and play Thresh support when I don't get/feel like playing jungle.

50 Comments

usul12023/26/2015, 6:02:00 AM15 votes

So, i don't play kass, but lets give him a fair trial here.

Zed: ulting is single target, PREDICTABLE (god do i love seeing him ult when I'm playing soraka) and has a long CD.

Nidalee: is only going to be pouncing for a solid kill. dodge the spears and her execute (main kitty attack) hits like air.

Talon: 100% single target, with no escapes worth a damn in a team fight.

Xin: not a fair comparison. xin's is a bruiser gap closer that is to make him sticky* (going over what kass has at the end)

Katarina: personally, i dislike her for her point and click mechanics, but she has weaknesses. you will never see a smart kat be an engager. it mitigates her chance of a reset, maximizes her chance of getting CCed. She has one role: get in you team and AoE. of course she has a gap closer (with a decent CD if you play against her properly.

Lebonk: exactly like zed. shorted CD for sure, but 90% single target, predictable, and you can play it. a nami bubble at her recall spot makes her stay in and get hit, plenty of champs have similar defenses. if she uses her ult to get that extra gap close, you just won, because that's a TON of damage lost for her.

Akali: is an assassin, easily blown up. she has to close on you, and is CCable, susceptible to AoE, and isn't going to get a reset without her team.

Fizz: you hope to god that he engages with playful/trickster. oh man, the beating that you can lay on a defenceless fizz in the middle of your team. its like a free insec, because his dash has a solid CD.

Fiora: no escape. she goes in, she ain't coming out till people are dead. very CCable except in her ult, which is 70-80% of her team fight presence. lunge isn't a main gap closer, its a dueling stick mechanic.

Khaz: i'm not sure how it defies logic. it's completely different than kassadin's void crawl. his is a gap closer or escape.*

Vi: long CD. predictable landing point. separates herself from her team. no major escape because champs can block her.

Wukong: another stick mechanic. he will use that to engage, right into his ult. and is completely CCable at any time during it. that's his main AoE attack, and it has a solid CD.

Warwick: see: zed. love him when i'm playing raka. he just stands there to get blown up for several seconds. is open to silences, stuns, really anything.

Now lets look at kassadin. what does rift crawl bring to the table?

1: AoE damage. holy cow. by the 3rd or 4th one, he's hitting everyone in a decent range for a not small amount, on a VERY short CD.

2: blink. it dodges all skill shots, something that cannot be said for most of the above. especially with the viegar stun changes, this is powerful.

3: CD. He can use it continuously throughout a fight. its not just an engage, it's a pure damage source. one of his largest in a team fight. that doesn't apply to many of the above.

4: it's an escape as well as an engage. he can get in, do damage with it, and then get back out. all with that one ability. the longer the range, not only the better engage, but also the more spread your team has to be to not get clump-dumped on by his AoE, but also the range that he can just disappear and be effectively uncatchable. slows are ineffective, and no one else can jump walls on that small of a CD.

Did he get hit too hard? yes. but riot is working on fixes, they're in PBE and (from what I've heard, I'm not actually there) they address some of these. his ult is not just a gap closer, and to classify it as such (and to compare it to other gap closers) is unfair to both sides. no then, BRING ON THE DOWNVOTES!

Haunt3/26/2015, 11:59:31 AM5 votes

I've been playing a lot of Kassadin lately. His mobility after 11 is insane already. And at level 16? He is rifting in and out of fights countless times. He doesn't need any ult buffs, if any at all.

If you don't agree, you either don't play Kass, or you've been playing him wrong. Cause there are many times where I go into their whole team to burst someone, then immediately ult out of it. Combined with Zhonyas it's insanely hard to kill him.

Penguin Eclipse3/26/2015, 2:27:05 PM5 votes

{quoted}

Sooooo, here's my rant on Kassadin.

PATCH NOTES (5.4): Kassadin ult range reduced from 700 to 450

MEANWHILE:

Katarina shunpo: 700 (resets on kill/assist) This is probably the biggest fucking insult to Kassadin to ever exist. Katarina beats Kassadin in almost every way now (not in a 1v1, he still counters Kat, but Kat brings more to the team). Katarina essentailly has the same mobility as Kassadin, with the exception that she can't jump over walls to get around the map faster. Katarina can run away with the same tactics as Kassadin, provided that she has a ward, which is not hard to come by. Not only that, but in an actual teamfight, her mobility far exceeds Kassadin's with her passive. She also does not have to be "smart" with her shunpo's as she's a resourceless champion. Not only that, but if she messes up one of her shunpos, she doesn't even get punished that hard. Her shunpo has a 6 second cooldown at level 5, making it easy to recover after a mistake.

Leblanc distortion range: 600 (x2 for a total of 1200...) This is like kat, but with higher initial burst damage, without the kill resets. Not going into detail, since everything said about kat pertains here.

Except the fact that Kat is manaless. Her CDs are generally shorter. Shunpo grants her tankiness. And her ability to team fight is infinitely better since all 4 spells can hit multiple targets. Not to mention that LeBlanc's distortion is her primary damage. If she has to use both to gap close then she won't contribute much to the fight.

Mapo3/26/2015, 5:39:56 AM5 votes

2015 still complaining about zed zzzzzz

Leti the Yeti3/26/2015, 5:39:47 AM5 votes

Rito has never been one to be consistent

Elo Thief3/26/2015, 2:07:13 PM3 votes

Lol OP is just downvoting people that don't agree with him.

That'll show them.

Jamaree3/26/2015, 5:47:11 AM3 votes

Why did no one use this list to defend Kassadin when he was the pick/ban champion?

Kingsgrave3/26/2015, 8:11:06 AM3 votes

Most of those are not free use mobility and the ones that are don't do nearly as much in a small window of time that Kass can do. They also aren't nearly as tanky and they can't use it every 3 seconds.

Different champions are different and balancing them is different.

LankPants3/26/2015, 9:51:08 AM3 votes

I think in the cases of Talon , XinZhao ,Akali , Fiora , MonkeyKing and Warwick it's Ok for them to have longer ranged dashes as they have to commit when they dash in. Kass's dash range is justified being a bit shorter as he can use it to get out as well as in.

You should probably add Lee W to your list as well, it has an effective 600 range, slightly longer if he has the ward increase mastery.

9Q1IMGTQP33/26/2015, 1:53:11 PM3 votes

Different champions, different kits, different stories.

You're making it way too easy for you OP by just taking some random numbers from random champions out of context - trying to prove nothing with nothing. All your fancy numbers aside, Kassadin still has the highest amount of mobility in the game (yes, Nidalees W is disgusting but atleast its not a blink). Riftwalk has more to it than its range, it has a 2 sec cooldown on level 16, it is a blink, and actually deals a decent amount of damage, not really high but often overlooked.

Kassadin is fine, he currently has a small buff on the PBE (stacking time 20 -> 15) which im personally looking forward too.

Rework his kit into a top lane fighter mage / Rework his ult to be similar to Ahri's ult

Horrible, horrible Ideas. I play Kassadin as a high-risk-high-reward assassin and there could be nothing more horrendous for me than seeing his kit turned into the cheesy IBG tank THAT YOU CAN PLAY already.

manbearswine3/26/2015, 12:36:35 PM2 votes

Oh no they nerfed the cancerous garbage,someone call the cops!

Just delete this shit,and stop buffing it.

Llanite3/26/2015, 7:14:57 PM2 votes

None of those have a 'spammable' jump.

They jump further, yes, but less frequently. Kass can jump every 2-3s while being tanky and do good/decent DPS.

JustMyBassCannon3/26/2015, 7:58:47 PM2 votes

On Zed, you're hilariously wrong.

First of all, the maximum blink range of his W is actually 1100, so if you were shooting for the absolute longest range jump he can make, it's 1725. On top of that, if the target runs away from him when he starts his R, it actually extends his return-blink's distance. Conversely, that maximum range would be if he used his W while walking the opposite direction, then used the blink when he was at the edge of its range. And if his target walks towards Zed when he uses his R, it negates the escape blink.

Second, unless Zed builds no movement speed at all, he'll tend to out-run the delay on his W blink. It would serve no purpose to W-R unless he was not walking in the direction of where he put his W.

On Kassadin, you're comparing a free-roam blink on a 6/4/2-second cooldown with gap closers that vary in length from 6- to 150-second cooldowns. Kassadin doesn't require a target in order to blink the maximum distance, meanwhile 10 of the 14 champions you mentioned either require a target or have shorter range without a target. The other four have much longer base cooldowns, especially the ones that have resets on kill/assist due to that very reset mechanic.

They're overall balanced by having different mechanics. The fact that one is longer range than the other is one advantage; the fact that the other has a much shorter cooldown and requires no target is a different advantage. Bitch all you want about not having advantage A, because they don't get advantage B and they're not complaining.

kcStranger3/27/2015, 5:00:17 AM2 votes

I do think the 4/3/2 ult cooldown change you suggest is the minimum necessary to make Kassadin respectable again. Fact is, with the ult range being nerfed so much, you really need to get off multiple Riftwalks during the meaningful, early part of a fight for it to be very good. Right now, almost all repeat ults pre-11 are pretty much cleanup/escape only (don't impact who wins most fights), as are many pre-16. Dropping to 4/3/2 would give Kassadin the chance to have many more meaningful ults early.

UPfreely3/26/2015, 7:01:17 PM1 votes

those are some pretty massive buffs to kassadin you're suggesting. I would be more keen on buffs that promoted him playing healthy. like riftwalk generating extra force pulse stacks or gaining extra range when it hits champions

SleepyLionCub3/26/2015, 5:14:19 PM1 votes

Twitch can ignore the tank like too with his q and Ult. Not saying he is op, but just saying he can.

Takeuchi 173/26/2015, 2:36:42 PM1 votes

I was really upset when they nerfed Kass but I think they're giving him better attention now on the PBE. I havent play him yet with the better CD resets but even with the 5.4 nuke leaving his ult at 450 i still managed to carry in an aram, but that was really the last time I touched him since i was so disgusted with that range and CDs

I think he was definitely unfairly nuked and people only continued to complain and ban him even after his winrate dropped after removing his silence because no one knew how to counter him due to his constant ban rate and so they nuked his mobility. I do feel like riot is taking his balancing seriously though and I think he'll come back. he always comes back.

I personally wouldnt want to see him changed to a top laner like you suggest, but it might be inevitable.

JedenVojak3/26/2015, 5:09:34 PM1 votes

Well, I'm glad someone out there also recognizes the hypocracy of lowering his ult range, when other assassins have near or on par jump range compared to him.

Let's take a look at your proposed fixes.

{quoted}

Make his ult range scale with his level. This is by far the best suggestion I've seen browsing the forums. Not only would it preserve his weak early game, it would allow him to regain his former glory of a 45% winrate.

I feel like that would just make his ult useless until max level. There's a reason the current iteration of Kassadin doesn't work - all of his abilities were overnerfed because of his ult, and then his ult was nerfed.

Reduce his stack resets, and lower his ult cooldown at levels 6 and 11. Cooldown: 6/4/2 --> 4/3/2 This would give him a more "rushed" feel, where he is designed as a champion to literally be everywhere at the same time.

Uh no, this is exactly the thing that makes Kassadin is a problem. If anything they should bring back the old range but increase the cooldown.

Rework his kit into a top lane fighter mage. Lower all of his cooldowns, and reduce their damage.

He already does support level damage. And I don't want him to be a fighter at all - he needs to be an assassin first and foremost. Currently he does not function as one.

Make his ult not do damage, and lower its mana cost again, and make the maximum number of stacks five instead of four. This would force him to use his ult for utility, and not damage.

His mana costs are already exorbantly high. Also the damage on his ult is laughably small - the rework change did a good job in completely wrecking its damage.

It would allow him to seem to be in multiple parts of a team fight at once, allowing him to help his teammates as a "firefighter", giving help to those who need it. He would need a better peel ability, such as a knockup, to protect his teamates (especially his adc).

Let's just give all champs knockups eh? He just needs to get his old (not worthless) slow back, and possibly his silence.

Also, as an assassin, his job is not to protect, it's to murder things.

Rework his ult to be similar to Ahri's ult, with a twist. When he ults, give him four stacks to use, which have a 100 second cooldown after 15 seconds. Lower the individual riftwalks to have a 2-4 second cooldown. Add a new effect:

This seems to be somewhat how his ult works in play right now. It would not be unreasonable to have it work in this fashion - and this limitation would possibly allow for power to be added back into his kit.

"Kassadin's walks through the rift leave infected areas on the ground, trapping anyone who steps on them, rooting them for 1/1.5/2 seconds." This would be an awesome change to his ult. It maintains his identity of a mobile assassin, while giving him a small amount of cc, in order to allow him to chase like he did before

This ability is not assassin like in the slightest. It's more like a mobile support.

My changes would be: Q - Shield removed, AP ratio dropped to 50%. Enemies hit are now tagged with Void Resonance for 3 seconds, which does 20/40/60/80/100(+30% AP) damage when you hit them with a melee attack. W - Cooldown reduced to 9/8/7/6/5 from 9 E - Slow value reduced to 50% at max rank, duration increased to 3 seconds, now does 20% of opponents AP as additional damage. R - Cooldown increased to 9/8/7

ARC Malafide3/26/2015, 2:08:08 PM1 votes

Welcome to the high risk high reward club. it sucks here.

You should go to the no risk high reward club of people like Zed. Riot loves them and their horrible designs. People with risk, get compensated.