Phage Usefulness and Entropy on Summoner's Rift.

ChronoTemplar·10/21/2014, 4:12:02 AM·8 votes·2,474 views

So my group of League of Legends friends were having a discussion about old items and the old Frozen Mallet that built from Phage, and we were trying to figure out why Entropy was never added to Summoner's Rift with the changes to Phage/Frozen Mallet. As it stands, the only thing that can be built from Phage on the Rift is TriForce, and while that can be a very useful item, under certain circumstances, it does not fit every champion.

On the other hand, Phage, for its cost level has a very high usefulness. I, for example, build it early on almost all my junglers, and I do not replace it unless it is the end of the game and I am rolling in enough gold to buy Frozen Mallet outright. Its useful for jungle clear times, ganking/chasing, and handing out jungle buffs to the carries earlier in the game.

That being said, the fact that it only builds into one item that is not useful on hardly any of the junglers that I play, is frustrating, because its stat allocation is not worth the quality of the passive late game, as good as the passive is. However most, if not all the junglers I play would benefit greatly from building Entropy. Adding more useful stat allocation and true damage to the Phage passive would greatly benefit my gameplay.

So my question becomes, Should Entropy be added to the list of Summoner's Rift items? I cant imagine it being terribly overpowered, especially since even the non-Summoner's Rift Entropy was nerfed a while back, and though there have been comments of overlapping with Entropy/Elder Lizard, Spirit of the Elder Lizard, and all other current jungle items are being removed in Season 5.

21 Comments

shppy10/21/2014, 4:32:21 AM3 votes

Because Entropy would be ridiculously overpowered on ADcs on SR. And ADcs are already ridiculously overpowered enough on SR.

It'd be a great addition to SR if the active were melee only; it'd give melees an ability to cling to enemies without the slow being completely overbearing (it'd help if the slow scaled by level though, or else it might suffer the same top-lane problem as old phage), and would open up a good way to eliminate the slow on BotRK (which is completely unjustifiable for it to have) while not outright breaking the legs of the melees that need that kinda slow for stickiness. But unless the active was outright melee-only (not diminished for ranged champs, it needs to be outright unusable for ranged), it'd just be yet another uncounterable way for ranged auto-attackers to kite melees while melees are rendered incapable of escaping OR fighting back, not to mention another way for ranged auto-attackers to make defenses even more irrelevant.

Entropy coming to SR pretty much seals the fate for any melee without multiple gap-closers if it would get ported completely as-is. Gotta be melee-only (but I'd completely support adding it to SR if Riot actually did make the active melee-only... I sincerely doubt they'd do that though. They'd probably make it diminished for ranged at first, then upgrade it to full usage for ranged champs a few months later with no concern whatsoever for the state of melee-vs-range)

PatMcGroyn10/21/2014, 2:21:46 PM1 votes

What junglers do you play that are good with Phage, but not with Tri Force? I'm struggling to think of one...

ChronoTemplar10/21/2014, 4:19:57 PM1 votes

Ok... A lot of things have been said since I put this up, so let me take one question at a time. First of all, let me clarify. There are some who would say many of my junglers can benefit from TriForce. I disagree. Let me explain. Volibear- I do not like to build TriForce on Volibear because the spellblade passive has no effect on his W, and I will not use his Q for damage. There are simply many more cost effective items for him. Shyvana- Shyvana's Q technically synergizes well with TriForce, but again, the passive is not, in my mind, worth all the wasted stats. Especially when you play Shyv as a tank, as I do. Hecarim- I see a lot of Hecarim players build TriForce, and I can understand that. However, with Blue buff (which I hog on him) his Q practically hits faster than he can auto anyway. Renekton- Yes, Renekton is more of a top lane champion, but I do jungle on him, and he could certainly benefit way more from Entropy than TriForce. Phage passive or not.

This is not a comprehensive list of all the junglers I play, just the ones that work towards my point. :)

As for the topic of ADCs and Entropy, I do not think we are taking everything into account. I am assuming that if Entropy were to be moved to Summoner's Rift, its meager cost of 2700 would go up, and there would be a lesser effect for ranged champions, as with many other items. With that in mind, I do not see Entropy being a viable item on ADs. Keep in mind that the active has a relatively high Cooldown. (60 seconds for a 5 second effect) Even the way Entropy is now, Blade of the Ruined King is a far more viable tank busting item for AD's, and building both Entropy and BorK, when most ADs build Static Shiv with BorK, means you have 3 items that together have less flat attack damage than Bloodthirster, Infinity Edge, or Essence Reaver.

Kowe The Ewok10/21/2014, 6:16:34 PM1 votes

Irelia comes to my mind...

Mirahkuru10/21/2014, 6:25:54 PM1 votes

I know this guy IRL :) He brings up alot of new thinngs when it comes to junglers.... Like for god sakes this guy braught back Ali jungle Alistar summoner 11 and has been expeiramenting with Lissandra jungle Lissandra summoner 11 ... When he brings up these ides i like to stand behind him and try them just to see what is going to happen because i have to say he is extreamly intellegent with jungling... He has tought me alot about this game and im still leanring new things from him every day... So i agree about the whole Phage thing...item 3044

doubleguac10/21/2014, 6:39:19 PM1 votes

Honestly, just looking at it, it might be a bit overpowered for SR.

Frozen mallet is intentionally given an awkward build path and an incredibly high combine cost in order to prevent champions from building it in lane. Back when it slowed, phage was nerfed incredibly hard because it was too snowbally in top lane, where melees could buy it to turn a minor lead into total lane domination when they were playing against another melee. If you add entropy to SR, people will be able to efficiently rush it in lane. Riot has historically had trouble balancing items with such long duration slows in lane.

ChronoTemplar10/27/2014, 7:04:18 AM1 votes

I just wanna take a second and thank everyone for reading, and especially thank those who commented. I'm sure this post is practically at the end of its lifespan, but I could be wrong, and maybe our discussion at least encourages Riot to look at the subject. Regardless, I appreciate the fact that my forum post got this many responses, which were all toxic-free. It says a lot about the good parts of the LoL Community, which, lets face it, needs all the positive attitude it can get.

PatMcGroyn10/29/2014, 4:11:04 PM1 votes

I think you're underrating TF, though. The mobility & extra AA burst is really valuable on the champs you listed. Most of them have low cooldowns and can take advantage of Spellblade procs very often. Sure, some items like BotRK might be a higher priority for Noc & Shyv, but even then, BotRK only provides temporary mobility compared to the static MS & Rage passive of Tri Force.

Dreadlocks3/17/2015, 8:13:52 PM1 votes

^Bump^