Duskblade of Darktharr is the AD version of DFG?

Civil Dawn·2/10/2016, 5:16:30 AM·4 votes·1,423 views

Originally I had thought they removed DFG because there was no counterplay to what was essentially an extra damage spell. It was making champions more assassin-like than normal (I think they referenced Ahri). Now they are giving it to AD champions with a cooldown refund? I can understand that the assassins need a better core item, but is this really the solution? I'm curious as to what other people think.

12 Comments

TehNACHO2/10/2016, 5:55:22 AM3 votes

Things that are different between DFG and Duskblade:

DFG gave the best stats in the game for its time. Excluding edge case items like an Archangels with other mana items or Rabadons with a lot of AP, it had one of the highest AP to gold ratios in the game. Not only that, it also granted CDR on top of that. There was literally no mage that would not have wanted this item if they didn't have something else they absolutely needed to buy before it.

Duskblade gives Flat Penetration, which comes with the unique weakness of falling off in effectiveness as the game goes on, and actually amplifying how much Armor the enemy buys, essentially making it more difficult for champions who buy this item to fight Tanky Champions.

Let's say our target has 2000 HP, 85 Armor, and 30 MR

To 100-0 this poor soul with Doom, you'd need ~1916 damage pre-resistance to kill the target. To 100-0 with Nightfall? You'd need 2728 damage pre-resistance to kill the target.

The effective window for Doom is twice as long as Nightfall

Because of the Flat AD, the fact that Nightfall inflicts Physical Damage is even more self defeating against Tanky targets.

Void Staff was, and still is, a great multi-purpose damage item to multiply the effectiveness of your damage on all targets.

With Last Whisper reworked, and Flat Penetration, Duskblade does not see the multi-purpose usage that DFG+Void Staff could enjoy.

Speaking of item interactions, Rabadons gains insane AP because of DFG.

If a Mage falls behind with DFG, because DFG is a multiplier and the Mage has very little damage to work with, DFG multiplies into nothing useful. On the other hand, if the Mage is ahead, that damage is amped up to overbearingly high. Feast or Famine.

If an Assassin falls behind with Duskblade, if they play smart, wait for the middle or end of a team fight, and then jump on an already injured carry, they could still prove useful to the team with the amp on this item. If an Assassin is way ahead and 100-0s the carry in one rotation, they couldn't immediately pound the next guy to the ground because their abilities are on cooldown, and if you kill the squishy, you're likely face to face with a Tanky person if you don't get out right away. You should know by now how Duskblade deals with Tanky targets.

120 Second Cooldown (Duskblade) vs 90 seconds (DFG)

And finally to get back the very first point I made, since any AP Mage can comfortably fit DFG in their build, every AP Mage must be balanced around it. Couple this with other easy to splash AP items like Rabadons and Void Staff, and you effectively put every AP Mage on a balance crutch due to their itemization.

On the other hand, the stats and utilization of Duskblade bottlenecks the amount of champs it can use down to a very specific stat profile and play style, all generally being burst based dive capable champs that want to target squishies. These are the exact champions that Duskblade are intended for, no less. Because it rounds out the champions it is very specifically catered to, it's much easier to isolate balance issues and directly fix power levels related to these particular champs directly.

Meep Man2/10/2016, 5:15:33 PM2 votes

The differences seem small, but are much larger actually:

DFG

  • Could be manually used from a range
  • Also dealt 15% max health

Duskblade

  • Automatically activates on next basic attack
  • Also deals 90 flat damage

The % missing health and % increased damage are essentially the same when you get down to it. Not to mention DFG gave 120 AP and 10% CDR, an amazing stat combination at the time.

Edge of Daybreak2/10/2016, 5:29:09 AM2 votes

Its not the same as dfg at all. Not even close. DFG was a ranged active while duskblade is a auto attack passive. DFG dealt damage them amped all future magic damage for 4 seconds. Duskblade deals damage after 2 seconds and is based on missing hp. so it doesnt amp my damage it just gives me a bigger damage proc based on my burst.

Dusk also means that you cannot use auto attacks in trades unless you plan to all in as you lose a 2 minute cooldown if you do.

ModWulf Helhammer2/10/2016, 5:44:57 AM2 votes

It only gives the reset if you kill the target without using it. If the duskblade proc kills the target, it goes on cool down

Illiad2/10/2016, 5:21:23 AM2 votes

It isnt, its literally the exact same as Zed ultimate. DFG would be used and increase all further damage, duskblade will burst a certain amount of damage after a given amount of time.

lolipopevelynn2/10/2016, 5:51:36 AM1 votes

this items power level can be compared to the power of DFG, but they are not at all the same thing.

that being said, its going to be nerfed. guaranteed. the item is insane on AD burst champs. it also makes the Graves nerf irrelevant.

Finders Keepers2/10/2016, 7:43:12 PM1 votes

It seems more powerful on shaco then DFG ever was. I mean i think this item is made for Shaco.. his clone applys on hit effects therefor you and your clone will trigger there own duskblade. In addition if you get cooldown 40%+ you can summon a new clone every minute with its new refreshed cooldown ready.