Talon Rework

Golden Harvest·12/16/2015, 3:01:47 AM·4 votes·1,325 views

Hey, I noticed on reddit that someone from Riot (Meddler possibly?) said that Talon was going to get a rework with the assassin class update. As someone who enjoys playing Talon a lot, I was curious what could be in store for him. I also have a couple of questions. First, what aspects of Talon's kit are you hoping to keep around and what parts do you want to get rid of? Second, I've noticed that the champion/class reworks are somewhat focused on finding strategic niches for champions. What niche of the assassin class should Talon occupy? Thanks!

12 Comments

ShatteredSkys12/16/2015, 5:11:45 AM2 votes

Hey! Talon is one of my most played champions along with Ahri so I'm pretty interested to see how they will change him.

I think as a strategic niche talon is 100-0 in 1 second assassin. aside from Rengar and maybe Leblanc he has the fastest combo out of all champions i would really like to keep this as it's really satisfying to instantly drop a squishy in a whirl of blades.

i think definitely the passive has to change. Honestly I don't even remember I have a passive on Talon most of the time, it's kind of hard to see it have an impact on my gameplay and it's kind of ....meh.. 10% damage is nice but its really meh especially when compared to other assassins.

it would be cool if he had a way to get out after he pulls off an assassination. i'm not sure if this is healthy for a 100-0 burst champion but once you kill someone unless you used your ult last you're kind of screwed....... All other assassins have a way to get out or can continue fighting but Talons just well there.

Mohha312/16/2015, 5:33:41 AM2 votes

Im curios as well because the damage amp on e is nice but the .25 second slow is boring and not really useful to anyone...

LadyRenly12/16/2015, 5:50:23 AM1 votes

Talon is completely fine, I enjoy him. Actually, I appreciate him a bit more than I do Zed. I wish his passive wasn't so useless. Not that I want anything groundbreaking because Talon was never defined by his passive

Jamatrix66612/16/2015, 5:19:03 PM1 votes

(Talon lover here)

Before giving you my opinion in answer to your 2 questions (about possibilities of what Riot are preparing for Talon), I'd like to clarify some of Talon's strengths, weaknesses and playstyle to set up the table a bit.

Strengths:

  • One of the fastest and most damaging AD burst rotation in the game. (W>E>AA+Tiamat>Q>R>R) can be done in less than 1 second I believe.
  • Easy to get a grip-on since his attack pattern is pretty straight forward, his skill-shot very easy to land and his general skill cap kind of low (Imo).
  • The whole burst also contains a decent amount of AoE damage which is a tad unusual for assassins in general and is very welcome in group fights.

Weaknesses

  • His only reliable escape is his ult, which comes at a high cost/long cooldown for an escape tool when compared to other assassins (Fizz Katarina Zed Khazix have much more reliable escape for instance).
  • Mana management can be somewhat tricky to deal with at low levels, especially against non-mana users such as Katarina or Zed.
  • Very straight forward all-in means Talon might not be as flexible as other champions who can generally deal with a greater number of situations. Also, unlike most of them, Talon doesn't have any tools to let him escape if he's losing the fight (except his ult arguably). In other words, ahead he's lethal but if not, he will barely impact the game (unless the squishies of the other team aren't grouping).

What aspects of Talon's kit are you hoping to keep around and what parts do you want to get rid of? To be honest, there's very little changes I can think of. If I was the one updating Talon, I would simply give him more interaction with his own skills, without directly buffing or nerfing him. And without changing his gameplay too much. His cooldowns, ratios, mana costs are all fine to me. I mean, once you learn to use your W well in early game, mana management is not even a problem. The new CDR to AD items helps Talon since he's more of an AD caster than an auto-attack reliant champion.

I can think of 2 changes. First, make E more interactive. Push players to complete certain conditons for an enhanced E for instance. E on slowed opponent applies X debuff on him. E on a bleeding opponent applies Y debuff on him. And since those debuffs are most likely to be stronger than a 0.25 second slow, let's remove it. I think it's a great way to create some interaction in his kit, give him a little bit more option depending on which debuff Talon wants to apply for the situation, and create an even bigger gap between decent Talon players from great ones.

Second, change his passive. I would remove the current one since it's uninteresting, dull and makes a difference in late game only. I don't think Talon needs bonus damage in his kit. He is the Blade's Shadow, so I would give him a 1.5 second invisibility after a kill without assist. Goes down to 1 second if a team mate or more has/have an assist on the kill. Just like his ult, Talon can prepare Q or Flash without breaking invisibility. Name it something like Shadow Devotion or similar could be great. That would fix his problem where he's so vulnerable once his combo is done, without the possibility to jump or dash away (Ekko Fizz Khazix Katarina Leblanc Zed)

What niche of the assassin class should Talon occupy? This question is kind of tricky since Talon's current niche is already...not really focused. Lemme explain. He has this amazing capability to delete squishies in less than 3 seconds when played well, which makes him an remarkable solo kill assassin. However, his whole combo also deals a lot of AoE damage. So basically he's the guy you can send to stop an ADC from split pushing, but also the guy you want to have in case a team fight occurs. I'm not sure which one of these role Riot are gonna focus on. For me, I hope they won't downgrade too much his solo kill power in order to give him more team fight power or vice-versa. I like how I can play Talon right now and by the mid-game, I can decide if I want to split push towers with my AA-Q and GhostBlade, if I want to go delete an opponent that is isolated or if I want to stay with my team in case there is a big brawl. I love to at least have the decision, since I know a good Talon can fulfill those tasks well.

Troy24262112/18/2015, 4:47:11 AM1 votes

Talon is my second most used champions, and I have to say, he's one of two assassins that actually feels like an assassin still. His fast combos (<1sec), his huge burst, his stealth escape and his gapcloser, to me, identify him an a champion.

I know being AoE should be something defining for him, but really, his playstyle isn't defined by it, in my opinion.