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I'm probobly gonna get alot of hate for this, buuuuuuut:

nintentwins·7/21/2016, 3:59:04 PM·58 votes·3,195 views

Dynamic queue doesn't effect your chances of winning as a solo as people make it out to be.

[zombie-brand-facepalm] <this is probably the response I'm getting right now, but I'm gonna continue anyway.

I came to this conclusion from the statistics of winrate shown recently by riot, not in the post, but specifically, in the comments, by riot Cactopus.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/07/red-post-collection-pre-worlds-early.html#more I'm posting the surrender at 20 post for it instead, as it still has the statistics and comments all laid out there, so you wont have to click all the links yourself. Just scroll down past the turret talk, it's at the bottom of the post.

For solo players, it's hardly effecting thier winrate at all in any case, but this comment sold me: http://imgur.com/a/CUTjf

"0.3% winrate difference" "oh, so that's why we're not bringing back solo queue" "TBH, solo-only players deserve a perfect 50-50 if all possible"

Not only is it not that big a difference with your own chances of winning, but they want it to be a perfect 50-50 in the future.

Thier not singling ya'll out, they want to improve it for everyone, not just premades, not just solos.

Now, I understand that many people don't like premades because it's an overall toxic experience when your the only 1 or 2 solos on your own team, when the rest is a 3 or 4 man premade. That's still a problem, but this post specifically is reffering to those blaming thier losses on premades. As this info shows that's not the case, it's an excuse people use to try to justify thier losses. LoL is filled to the brim with people trying to blame others for losses, it's been that way for a long time now, and will probably never change. Dynamic queue was just another form of an excuse for a loss, when it is now very clear, it's not the case at all.

Complain about toxic premades all you want, that is a problem with dynamic queue I COMPLETELY agree with. But as far as blaming it for losing a lot of the time, that's all in your head.

Now, I'm expecting a lot of downvotes, hate comments, and death threats coming my way, time to brace myself.

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Well, anyways, best of luck on the rift . [slayer-jinx-wink]

EDIT: there appers to be some misunderstanding, this post was directed toward those who blame DQ for thier losses, and that alone. As far as experience of playing with premades goes, it is an overall toxic experience, and it may have come off as me defending it, that is not the case. DQ is a more toxic experience for solo players, i completely agree with that. But I do not think is it an excuse for people losing thier games. Just wanted to clear that up ^^''.

110 Comments

GaleWinUnleashed7/21/2016, 4:11:44 PM35 votes

Hardly matters what the winrate is. The fact remains that, as a solo player, it is frustrating to play with/against premades. The game is less fun when your input is mitigated or ignored by the majority group.

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

HeeroTX7/21/2016, 6:29:37 PM11 votes

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or just unintentionally? The post you linked explicitly states that they're "tweaking" the matchmaking to ACCOUNT for premades. To put that in perspective, if you match me against Kobe Bryant in shooting baskets, he'll ANNIHILATE me. But if you let me shoot from anywhere I want and make him shoot from halfcourt, then (maybe) we'll be more "equal". That's not a fair match, that's just handicapping one side. If you put a 5 man premade of Gold 3s against 5 solo Plat 5s, it may be an "even" game (maybe, I dunno) but is that a "good" game? Are you "accurately" interpreting skill for EITHER team? What's the POINT of the Gold rank vs. the Platinum rank in this case? Suppose the Golds beat the Plats, does that mean any or all of the Gold players are Plat level? Are the Plats all "boosted" and should be Gold?

This is the absolute WORST problem with Riot's "ranked" mentality. Just because the game winrate is 50/50 doesn't mean things are "appropriate". I mean, if THAT is ok, why not just shorten queue times by letting ALL ranks play against each other and tweak starting gold by your MMR. (Silver v. Platinum? Silver starts with 3000 g, Plat with 500 g) And just keep tweaking the amounts until you find where the "breakpoint" is. Results are all that matters right? winrates are equivalent and queue times would be minimum possible. Everyone wins, right?

Maximum Morde7/21/2016, 4:09:42 PM8 votes

Mathematically it shouldnt, and I'll trust that it doesn't. What it does do to solo players is reduce their individual impact on a match.

As the size of the premade rises, your individual impact will fall, if we assume that both sides have equal sized premades. The match will boil down to which premade is better. As a solo player, I found that to be unacceptable as signed up to play a game, not be along for a ride I had no real power to influence.

GamblerOfLives7/21/2016, 6:07:47 PM8 votes

it affects the integrity of the particular game..which in my books, it's a huge "fuck you" from riot to the solo players.

Vistha Kai7/21/2016, 7:59:11 PM6 votes

The whole issue went past your head, OP.

This is how they maintain 50% winrate.

Game 1: http://i.imgur.com/r7SmxfD.png?noredirect

Game 2_(Sion is mid)_: http://i.imgur.com/5It82u4.png?noredirect

Notice the difference in ranks.

This is simply un-fucking-forgivable.

Serika Zero7/22/2016, 9:46:45 AM5 votes

WE DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT WIN RATIO if a game makes us feel like trash, we are going to remember that game over the good ones

and premades, have the lovely nature of making games feel like trash, regardless if they are in your team or the enemy team. And with the highly increased odds of having a high number of premades in every game. It makes games painful to play.

Next, premades get advantages by playing as premades:

  • know each other
  • voice chat if they want to
  • every now and then +IP bonus weekends
  • more hextech chests
  • higher drop rate for hextech keys
  • can play premade IN EVERY FUCKING SINGLE GAME MODE OUT THERE

Solo players get advantages by playing solo as:

So, comparing the two of them, you can see why solo players hate premades. Not to mention it shits on the entire rank system. People that get higher rankings playing as a premade team get a totally different experience than climbing solo is.

And that's why we fucking HATE DYNAMIC SHIT. The end.

We probably won't play ranked at all if draft normals will become solo only >.>

Again, WIN RATIO DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER. http://i.imgur.com/SZAXMD7.jpg Its not about the win ratio. Its about feelings.

However, if you think humans are just robots without a brain or feelings, then sure. Mathematics are all that matter ;)

deadlychuck7/21/2016, 6:29:26 PM5 votes

Probably not, but speaking as an outside party (someone who doesn't play ranked), i can see why having a bad experience in a game, despite winning the game could be unfun.

If you're getting bullied by the part of the enemy team who are grouped, and the part of your team which is grouped carries the game and wins it, then that's fine, but it's not just about the end screen. I wouldn't even want to bother playing the game if that was the case, i'm just the scapegoat for my team at that point.

An even win rate doesn't mean an equally satisfying game experience, it's that simple.

dunkeroni7/21/2016, 7:29:16 PM5 votes

It's not actually about winrate for most of us, it's about how enjoyable the game is. Win or lose, I don't enjoy being queued with and against premades.

undefined247/21/2016, 4:05:04 PM5 votes

i do not personally like dynamic because it makes playing with just me and one friend a horrible experience from what i have played but upvote this because people need to read this

CaptnJakSparrow7/21/2016, 7:59:18 PM4 votes

They still aren't showing the win percentage of trimades in diamond vs a team of solos, and there's a reason for that =3.

So no. It does make a difference.

Tobias Brackner7/22/2016, 12:14:42 AM4 votes

I understand that many people don't like premades because it's an overall toxic experience

I've hit the same amount of toxicity, premades or no. Actually I feel there has been an overall decrease so I think this is another "fact" that people are just pulling out of their ass with no evidence

BIue Monk7/22/2016, 8:54:41 AM4 votes

It's pretty incredible how you are getting manipulated by Riot. Cactopus himself seems to not understand the metrics he is talking about. It's exactly how stats should NOT be done. Win rate stats are giving NO information AT ALL on anything, really ZERO (0 %) information, nada. Everyone would laugh at you in a stat class for saying "Hey, look 50/50, so it's all fine !". The problem is infinitely more complex than this.

Hyrum Graff7/21/2016, 6:25:45 PM4 votes

Worth noting: this is very recent. As per Riot's own graph, the numbers were much, much worse up until this point in the season.

Sire Hippington7/21/2016, 8:04:31 PM3 votes

Yes, Dynamic que is use as an excuse for losses, and with enough iteration the algorythm will lead to statistical balance. This issue is that it reduces the match quality in order to achive the statistical balance. If you face a premate team as a bunch of solo's, it gets balanced out by each individuel player on the oppsing team haveing worse mmr. As a result, your wincondition will always be 'pick strong lanes and snowball' because you team has the superior individual players and far worse team coordination. This reduces the value of shotcalling and similar team oriented skills on soloplayers and instead focuses purely on mechanical prowess to overpower your opponent in lane. Also, if you get matched with premades, you will always have a relative smaller impact on the game, especially in terms of macro play, as the premades mostlikely follow a plan and ignore calls of other teammembers.

Dynamic que doesn't make it harder to win for soloplayers if the matchmakeing algorythm is done well, but has alot of other issues that are related to it's core concept and won't be fixed by improved implementation.

AninLegions7777/21/2016, 10:33:40 PM3 votes

Sigh

Okay I'll say it incase you didn't read it in the numerous threads.

Climbing is not the issue. Infact some solo players say it's easier that last season. The main problem is and always will be, ranked integrity. There's no ranking system IN THIS WORLD, that groups premades and solos together. It's not just done. It's a statistical mess. There'll be disparities in ranking. Some people having an unfair advantage over others. 50% winrate doesn't make it balanced. It's just stats used to make it seem okay. It's not.

That being said, this ladder doesn't ACCURATELY reflect the ranking of anyone. I can say this because I see people who have Silver borders at Diamond elo. Does this mean they belong there? Nope.