"True" Stealth and Hard CC.

19348180DEL1·12/3/2016, 6:10:40 AM·2 votes·830 views

Assassins with hard CC have generally been shunned away from. So imagine my surprise when the one's we do have bolster when the only real means of detecting them gets axed. NOT ONLY THAT but those true stealth champs have amazing stat growths that can allow them to consistently outperform in capable hands. It's already tough enough to take out folks like Rengar, Evelynn, and Twitch. But now we have hard cc coming from undetectable assassins, and as I recall in 2011, Riot took dramatic extreme steps to steer away from that situation even though there was an easy-to-use cheap tool for sale to help.

... So why the sudden trip through time? What's the thought process?

3 Comments

DrugsForRobots12/3/2016, 7:25:40 AM2 votes

As a Shaco main to an (I assume) Evelynn main:

Can we not misuse the word stealth? Riot's been doing it for years and the current state of the vision game and the champions with invis is due the confusion of misusing words.

Stealth: (stĕlth) n. cautious and surreptitious action or movement; the quality or characteristic of being furtive or covert.

Invisibility: (ĭn-vĭzˈə-bəl) n. not visible; out of sight; unseen; impossible to view.

Akali Evelynn Graves Ivern Khazix Nocturne Quinn Shaco Talon Teemo Twitch Vayne

All of these champions have some kind of invisibility inherent to their kit. It may manifest itself in different ways, but they can deny you vision of themselves without needing some external source like brush or terrain or being beyond your field of sight.

You'll notice this conflicts with Riot's terms for 'stealth' (which they use when they really mean invisibility) which they categorize as 'invisibility' (which is actually invisibility) and 'camouflage' (which is invisibility based on proximity, why it needs a term all to itself, IDK). That's because they're using the wrong words. I don't think they'll be able to do anything right regarding the vision game and the invis champs without first correcting their terminology. Don't let them get away with it!

To answer your question:

My guess would be that they are (eventually) going to add more means of detecting invisible champions. There is already a 'shimmer' effect when you damage an invisible champion. Maybe we'll be getting more effects like Rek'Sai's Tremor Sense and Sweeping Lens' Silhouette.

But I get the feeling you're referring to Vayne. The easy answer is that Riot loves her and feels she's fair. I think it may also be my efforts to point out to them that an instant speed AoE of True Sight on a 75g item is BS. I pointed this out regularly for months on any post talking about True Sight or vision or the invis champs. My hope was that they'd add a brief delay before the True Sight kicks in. Unfortunately they went and removed the True Sight all together leaving us with no reliable counter at all. Even better (worse) is that they didn't include any tell-tale signs or aural / visual cues on the champs with invis when they got 'updated' so champs like Twitch and Shaco can still just pop out of no-where with no forewarning.

sigh

19348180DEL112/3/2016, 12:40:40 PM1 votes

I understand your post. They just want us to either Run or Die. And it's true. You either run, or you die. If you have no skill shots, you run or you die. Does this make the power shift from Targeted attacks to any-time cast champions? Should I really need to coordinate with my adc to make sure we're firing Mystic Shot and Inner Fire in random directions towards the river every time my enemy bot lane makes a movement in an unpredicted manner? There is no point in walking up to the brush any longer to throw a control ward in there unless there is a Combat Invisibility champion NOT present in the game.

The only method of dealing with these champions, I gather, is to deny them hard and set them back as far as possible as early as possible, and to keep setting them back as far and as early as possible. Okay, in higher level play, that is quite possible (I spectate a lot). In lower level play, with all of its factors not present in higher level play, this is not logical or efficient, or sane. I can't expect everyone to know exactly where and how a Vayne or Wukong strikes. I won't even talk much about Shaco.

Anyway. My point in the post is to direct attention to how severely skewed the learning curve is now. People aren't like me, long time player but stuck in low level play. People in low level play are new and do not have quite as much game experience or knowledge as one like myself. There would need to be nearly a classroom lecture's worth amount of time to explain/discuss strats once we know what champion composition we'll be playing against. There's only 30 seconds. The dudes using the Invisibility champs don't have to worry or learn from the experience of stepping over a pink ward without realizing it (which with the way control wards are revealed upon successfully detecting a camouflaged unit being ADDED to the pink ward instead would have been really cool).

The only unit now logically capable of performing a hard reveal via the use of items is the support. There are champions with the ability, but you can't honestly expect lower level/newer players to honestly pick TF every single time Shaco is locked in and perform. It just isn't going to work.

So just run, right? Every time. Right? Don't fight. Back off. Binary.

Evelynn item 2047

Which brings me back to my point about 2011! This is obviously a familiar scenario (just that now, pink wards are no longer 100/75 gold, there is no Oracle's Elixir for 400 gold, and there are several more Champions than 2 [who are no longer even apart of this topic] with the dire need to be revealable in some way).

My gut wants to tell me that this will be solved via a trinket introduction around the start of the year. But my mind is guessing this is going to be a full season long deal until anything is done about it. I hope my mind is wrong.